Understanding Daniel Relies on Jude and Enoch? Really?

March 23, 2015 at 7:22 AM

deceivedIn my last article, I pointed out some obvious and egregious errors that a PostTribber (“boldncourageous”) espoused regarding PreTrib Rapture position. He used dishonest tactics to make it appear as though I was unable to respond to him (by not allowing my response to his comments on his blog). So, I opted to write my response to him here on this blog as an alternative.

This wasn’t the first time a PostTribber deleted my comments. Several years ago, a PostTribber was all over the charts claiming how deceived PreTribbers are and they couldn’t respond to his points. I took the bait and responded to each and every one of his points. Shortly after my response was posted, he removed it. I’ve come to understand how PostTribbers play their game of deceit.

On another occasion, a PostTribber kept sending me unsolicited and unwelcome emails against the PreTribber position. At first I tried to engage him,but that was to no avail because he never responded to my points. He simply continued to send emails that allegedly condemned the PreTrib position, using plenty of out-of-context Scripture to bolster his argument. I then tried unsuccessfully in asking him politely to stop sending me his emails. He continued to ignore me. I was left with no other recourse but to report him to the company where he had his email informing them that his unwanted emails were harassing and he needed to stop. It was only then that his emails stopped.

These individuals wrongly believe their calling is to “straighten out” PreTribbers. If this doesn’t work, then they must warn us until everyone is blue in the face. It is interesting to me that they do not do this with people who are lost. In fact, I doubt they ever evangelize the lost at all, so convinced are they that their “mission” on earth is to attempt to correct PreTribbers. Of course, in doing this, they have set aside the “Great Commission” stated by our Lord Himself. These people don’t care though because they have such a self-aggrandizing view of themselves, their “knowledge,” and their alleged biblical acumen. They actually believe God is cheering them on.

This type of thing speaks to a person’s character. “Boldncourageous” says he’s a Christian and believes I’m deceived and am “dragging” people to hell because of it. What he does and says speaks to his true character. But what else can we find out about the character of “boldncourageous” that will give us insight into his heart?

There have been several times in his response (to my responses) where he has accused me of indulging in speculation, which Paul warns us to avoid (cf. 1 Timothy 1:4). Of course, “boldncourageous” only thinks he knows what Paul is referring to here.

If we know anything about context, we know Paul was dealing mainly with Jewish leaders who taught about extrabiblical stories. These “myths” had become part of Jewish tradition and were held in as high esteem as God’s Word. Paul told Timothy to tell the men in question to stop teaching their “myths” like the ones found in the apocryphal books Book of Jubilees or The Book of Enoch. People today often amplify the importance of these books, simply because Jude and Peter either quote from or refer to the Enoch mentioned in the book of Genesis (chapter 5).

Paul was telling Timothy that it was essentially a complete waste of time trying to debate or argue with these people over these type of issues because it would do no good for them or for others listening. In fact, it would simply create problems. The “myths” that these Jewish leaders spoke of introduced erroneous beliefs into the local body of believers. This is why Paul tells Timothy to “instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines.” Timothy should not lower himself to get into arguments that serve no purpose. Paul is not speaking of differences in Eschatological viewpoints. He’s talking about something far more dangerous, which takes uninspired books (scrolls) and elevates them to equal status with God’s Word.

Note the quote below from “boldncourageous.” Unfortunately for him, Paul would say he needs to be warned and then avoided because he relies of “myths” from books like The Book of Enoch.

“Concerning Daniel’s 70th week. Daniel was NOT the first to use the term “week.” The book of Jude refers to the book of Enoch. Enoch was the 7th from Adam and used the term “week” in his writings. It NEVER meant 7 years in his writings… it was 1000 year periods of time, but, no matter, you really aren’t making your point clear.
Here is the CLEAR point: 66 AD to 73 AD is a Seven year period. In the middle of that week, 70 AD the sacrifices and offerings WERE ended. It started with Titus in 66 AD and ended at Masada in 73 AD.”

Let’s take a closer look at his comments above to see what we can learn.

1. Daniel was not the first to use the term “week”
That has no bearing on anything at all. None. Nada. Zilch. Context means a great deal and because of that, we need look no further than Daniel 9 to gain understanding as to what Gabriel meant when he spoke to Daniel about 70 “weeks” in that very chapter.

2. Jude refers to Enoch
This fact does NOT in any way, shape, or form mean that The Book of Enoch was inspired by God as the Bible is inspired by God. The fact that the Book of Enoch existed during the time of Jesus and likely read by Jesus and others (like Jude) means that it was a book (scroll) that was read by Jewish men. The fact that Jude refers to Enoch (Jude 1:14) tells us NOTHING about the term “sevens” (“weeks”) in the book of Daniel. Jude points out that when Jesus returns He will do so with 10,000s of His saints. That has nothing to do with the meaning of the erroneously translated “weeks.”

3. Enoch was the 7th from Adam
Another interesting fact, but still has no bearing on the meaning of “sevens/weeks” in Daniel 9. Many times the word “seven” is used in Scripture. They don’t always refer to the same thing as determined by context.

4. Enoch used the term “week” in his writings
Apparently, this means that every time the word “week” or “weeks” is used in the Bible, it must be used the same way that it was meant by Enoch and hence, Gabriel in Daniel? This is an absurdity. That’s like saying every time someone uses the word “dozen” it always refers to eggs. “Would you mind picking me up a dozen eggs from the store?” It’s asinine. The original word in the original language does not translate to “week” or “weeks” anyway. It actually translates to “sevens,” which is like saying a “dozen.” But the next question would automatically be “a dozen what?” Only the context tells us what the term “dozen” (or in Daniel’s case “sevens”) refers to.

5. Enoch never meant the term “week” to mean 7 years
Again, this has nothing to do with anything at all. Not one thing. In order to know what “sevens” is referring to, we need the context where it is used. For Daniel, the entire context of chapter 9 is speaking of years. Gabriel is essentially saying to Daniel, “Not 70 years, Daniel, but 70 sevens of years” or 70 times 7 equals 490 years. It’s very, very simple IF a person allows the Bible to speak for itself (cf. Daniel 9:24).

The word in the original Hebrew for “weeks” is actually shavuim. It means “sevens” not weeks. This is one of the most grievous errors committed by translators of the King James version. For the word to be translated “weeks,” it would have needed to have been shavuot in the original. That’s not the case. The translators were wrong and the manuscripts they translated from prove it.

So what does this mean in conjunction with the timetable in Daniel 9? The word “sevens” is very much like the word “dozen” as noted. The word is a determiner. For instance if my wife asked me to go to the store to pick up a dozen and went no further, I would be forced to ask her a dozen what if I had no clue (donuts? eggs? golf balls?). However, if the context of the conversation surrounded a discussion of eggs, I would understand without having to ask her to clarify.

seventy_sevens_part2It is the same with Daniel 9. Gabriel is literally speaking about a total of 70 “sevens.” The word sevens is a determiner, but without knowing what it determines, we cannot know for certain what the total amount would be.

But since the entirety of Daniel 9 is dealing with years, then that context gives us the information we need to know. Gabriel tells Daniel that 70 “sevens” (of years) will be applied to the Jewish people. Once we understand this, it is simply a matter of multiplying 70 times seven (sets of years) to equal 490. We know that the sevens is joined to years because of how perfectly the first 7 “sevens” plus the 62 “sevens” works out from the beginning point of Artaxerxes’ decree to rebuilt Jerusalem in 445 BC (cf. Nehemiah 2:1-8). The end of the 62nd/69th seven takes us up to the Triumphal entry of Jesus on the colt of a donkey into Jerusalem. That event ends the 62nd/69th seven. Daniel 9:27 says “And after this…” telling us that several events will happen AFTER the 69th seven ends. One of them is the crucifixion, then wars and desolations. The 70th seven begins when Antichrist confirms the covenant with the many for one “seven,” the last seven, also known as the Tribulation period. This has not occurred yet, though “boldncourageous” sincerely believes it does.

If the first 69 “sevens of years” works out perfectly, then obviously the final or 70th “seven” is the same amount of time – one seven represented by one seven-year period. I’m amazed at how many commentators change the length of this last week.

It is clear that we need look no further than Daniel 9 to determine what is meant by the original word – shavuim – meaning “sevens.” Certainly, the Lord would not send us to The Book of Enoch or some other apocryphal writing to determine truth about His inspired Word. While The Book of Enoch is certainly a very interesting read, we cannot claim it as inspired even if under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Jude, Peter, or anyone else quoted from or referred to it.

6. Enoch probably meant 1,000 year periods of time
This assertion from “boldncourageous” is interesting for a number of reasons. He has taken me to task on several occasions, accusing me of constantly speculating over the meaning of the Bible. Yet, here we see him doing the exact same thing! Not only that, but he makes no effort to explain why the “week” in Enoch represents 1,000 year time periods. But again, Enoch has no bearing on Daniel.

Aside from being duplicitous, deceitful and essentially a liar, “boldncourageous” is also a hypocrite, telling me I can’t do the very thing that he does. Is this amazing or what? But, it is very common for this type of person.

7. 66 AD to 73 AD is a Seven year period
This is another interesting point considering “boldncourageous” just got through telling me that Enoch “NEVER” meant 7 years in his writings. Yet, “boldncourageous” concludes that not only is the “final” week a seven-year period, but that it started with Titus in AD 66 and ended in AD 73 with Masada. The midpoint, he says, is the destruction of Jerusalem. I wish I had time to go into all the reasons why this is a complete and utter fallacy. Maybe at some point in the future.

There is a huge problem. If there is no GAP as “boldncourageous” has claimed between the 69th and 70th weeks, then his math here is off. Would he argue that after the 62nd/69th week when Messiah was cut off (killed), we immediately skipped 30 or so years to rush ahead to AD 66? Maybe “boldncourageous” is not aware, but Jesus died in approximately AD 32. If the final week didn’t start until Titus, there is obviously a GAP of time of 30 years. He says there is no gap, but obviously, there is according to him. His math simply does not add up any way you look at it.

It is obvious that the Bible can be made to say anything, especially if a person plays fast and loose with interpretations and timelines, as “boldncourageous” has obviously done.

There are a couple of take-aways from this. First, “boldncourageous” can quote Scripture. He appears to know his way around the Bible. However, it reminds me of people in cults or sects. From some of his articles, he’s not even a normative Posttribber. He has some very strange beliefs, which I’m sure add to his already glowing view of his own “righteousness.”

Many people can quote Scripture left and right. My aunt was one. Ask her something about the Bible and she could go to chapter and verse. The problem? As an adult, she became a Jehovah’s Witnesses and died one as well. Oh, she “knew” the Bible. Unfortunately, she had no ability to discern (rightly divide) what the Bible actually said. She was completely wrong on many counts, but you couldn’t tell her that at all. She had no patience for people who had not been brainwashed into the Jehovah’s Witnesses as she had. It was her job to tell us, then shake the dust off her feet where we were concerned if we rejected her beliefs. Though she maintained family ties, it was clear to the very day of her death that she believed we were wrong.

The Bible should be read, studied, and memorized. Think of all the charlatans though who can quote Scripture convincingly today. This is what we need to avoid.

The Bible is Authored by God Himself. We study it to avoid being ashamed when we see Him. We also study it because through it, we gain salvation and our relationship with God Almighty, through Christ our Lord, grows to maturity. We become more like Him so that one day, we will all attain to maturity in the faith (the next life).

Of course, in the case of “boldncourageous,” we can clearly become puffed up if we’re not careful. Let’s remember that Satan knows the Bible better than any human being alive. This is proof enough that simply knowing the Bible does not grant salvation, discernment, or understanding. We must be extremely careful when handling God’s Word. We must never think we have “arrived” to the place where we need no further understanding. We should always be learning, always seeking Him, and always striving to humbly submit to Him.

We can never rest on our laurels, thinking we have somehow captured the market on biblical knowledge.

Remember, God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble (cf. Proverbs 3:34; 1 Peter 5:6; James 4:6).

Entry filed under: Posttribulational Rapture, Pretribulational Rapture, rapture, Religious - Christian - End Times, Religious - Christian - Prophecy, Religious - Christian - Theology.

Dishonesty of a PostTribber Comes Home to Roost Loving the Lost, Both Loveable and Unlovable


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