Theological Problems for Those Who Fail to Grasp Scripture

November 21, 2014 at 7:46 AM 7 comments

Why-a-pre-trib-raptureWhen you write a blog like this, chances are good that many people will gravitate toward it. There will be folks who like what they read, believe it to be biblical and follow the blog for that reason. There will be others who disagree with the theological perspective of the blog and choose to ignore it. Then there is another group, a group that though they believe the message contained in the blog is wrong, they believe it is their mission in life to correct those perceived errors. This last group of people are not interested in what we would call discussion. They are only interested in browbeating the owner of the blog in question into submission. They come to preach, pontificate. They do not even consider that they themselves might be wrong in any way, shape, or form. They are way too entrenched in their own dogmatic approach to God’s Word to see their own error. They are too busy pointing out the error of those with whom they disagree.

In my case, I was not born a Dispensationalist. The first word out of my mouth was not “PreTrib Rapture.” In fact, it was not until I became a young adult that my own study caused me to see that much of what is called Dispensationalism makes sense. Along with that is the doctrine of the PreTrib Rapture.

Belief in the PreTrib Rapture used to be “okay.” It was accepted, though still considered wrong by many. Over the past few decades since people like Gary North and Dave MacPherson wrote their books (filled to the brim and overflowing with sarcasm), those who believe the Bible teaches a PreTrib Rapture have become demonized. We are now seen as “apostate,” and we are charged with making Jesus a liar.

Over the past few weeks, one particular individual has learned of my site and apparently believes that God has unleashed him to “straighten me out.” I allowed one of his sermonized comments to post and responded to it. I thought that would be the end of it, but I was wrong. He’s back and his new set of comments simply proves to me what I already know. He has no true interest in dialogue. He is here to sermonize, to harp, to preach, to correct, etc. The problem of course is that he sees me as being deceived and therefore has no difficulty pointing out what he considers to be a plethora of mistakes on my part. Because he believes I am deceived, I am little more than a programmed robot to him. He is devoid of compassion (though he would argue that the very fact that he takes the time to rebut my “errors” is proof enough that he has compassion. I beg to disagree).

There are several sets of beliefs concerning Eschatology. He takes the position that much of what Daniel spoke about related to Israel has already occurred. He sets up his argument and then tries to underpin it with Scripture. Here’s the problem though. There are very well-meaning and extremely bright individuals who come down on one of four doctrinal beliefs regarding Eschatology (study of end times). They all firmly believe their opinions to be the correct opinion and everyone else is incorrect. I would have to say that I come down on the side of the Premillennial, PreTrib Rapture position. I believe I am correct. However, let me clearly state (as I’ve done so before) that I could be wrong. My particular beliefs regarding Eschatology do not impinge necessarily on my salvation.

There are folks who do not believe in the future 1,000 year reign of Jesus we call the Millennial Kingdom. These folks fall under the Amillennial category. They certainly have a right to their opinion and I doubt that anyone can change their minds about it.

Here is what our mystery commenter stated recently about the future of Israel:

Scripture makes it very clear when the “worst time ever” WAS for Israel. It is not futuristic. Today, her future is brighter than her past.

Actually, it doesn’t. In fact, if Scripture were THAT clear, then everyone would believe the same thing. There is wiggle room with some doctrines that are not directly connected to salvation (Soteriology).

He then goes on to make these statements:

So why does (sic) most views ignore History? Surely they could integrate it into their doctrine? One point is the 7 year period of the Great Tribulation. Without Daniel 9:27 (Daniel’s 70th week) being futuristic a seven year (sic) period is not substantiated, and it’s very important for it to be 7 years long for them for some reason. More importantly, it is important to separate the Jews from the church. To except (sic) history as history and not push it into the future one must except Paul’s writings that the wall of separation between the Jew and gentile and we are one new man in Christ Jesus… Eph. 2:11-15. Without this separation the separation between the rapture and the second coming becomes impossible. It is already… you see Jesus declares that He will come “like a thief…” for the second coming… 2 Peter 3:10, Rev. 16:15. If a rapture were to happen 7 year prior, the Jesus would be a liar concerning the nature in which He declared how he would come for the second coming, “like a thief…” A rapture 7 years prior would destroy any element of surprise, “like a thief…” would have destroyed the declared element of surprise between the 6th and 7th bowl…Rev. 16:15. Matt. 24:42,43. Jesus is not the liar, and He did not make a mistake placing Rev. 16:15 where He did.

Notice please the third sentence in the above paragraph, “Without Daniel 9:27 (Daniel’s 70th week) being futuristic a seven-year period is not substantiated, and it’s very important for it to be 7 years long for them for some reason.

What he fails to understand (or believe) is that the Tribulation is 7 years in length. In Daniel 12, which he also quotes earlier, it references 3.5 years, but at that point, the Scripture is referring to the time from the midway point of the Tribulation until its end. Our writer notes 3.5 years several times in his comments to me, but he fails to understand the entire context of Daniel 9, in which a “week” is actually a reference to a period of 7 years. The entirety of Daniel 9 focuses on that fact because it starts off with Daniel learning from the prophet Jeremiah that the 70 YEAR captivity of Israel was almost finished. Gabriel comes along to tell Daniel essentially that while yes, Israel’s 70 YEAR captivity was nearly completed, there was another series of years that we call the “times of the Gentiles” and it began with the Babylonian Kingdom and continues until the final phase of the fourth beast (Roman Empire), which leads up to the actual physical return of Jesus Christ.

Ultimately, Gabriel tells Daniel that it’s not 70 years but 70 times 7 years (Daniel 9:24) that Jerusalem (the holy city) will be trampled underfoot by Gentiles). Those 70 times 7 years equals 490 years or 70 WEEKS (cf. Daniel 9:24). So when we arrive at Daniel 9:27, every week has been fulfilled EXCEPT the final or 70th WEEK.

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

Notice “he” (Antichrist, not Jesus due to rule of first antecedents), makes a “firm covenant with the many for one WEEK,” a period of 7 YEARS. Then notice that in the MIDDLE of the week, this same “he” will cause the sacrifice and grain offerings to cease. If we turn over to Daniel 12 now, we learn about the second half of the 7 year Tribulation or the final 3.5 years. Scripture must be allowed to interpret itself.

Also notice that even though I took the time to respond to his claim that a PreTrib Rapture would destroy “any element of surprise – like a thief” previously, he still uses that same argument. This is likely because he believes that we believe that the PreTrib Rapture kicks off the Tribulation, which it does not. Hal Lindsay had that wrong. The Rapture can happen today or ten years from now, but it is not the event that kicks off the Tribulation. It is the event found in Daniel 9:27 – when Antichrist brokers a firm covenant. The Rapture has nothing to do with it. But even if the Rapture DID kick off the Tribulation, no one knows WHEN it will happen. The reference to a “thief” coming in the night simply points to those who are completely unprepared by having fallen asleep or have begun to doubt His return at all. This is the meaning of the parables when the master of the house goes on a long journey and his servants get tired of waiting for him so start acting up (cf. Mark 13, etc.). Notice these servants KNEW the master left and promised to return, but began acting as if He was not going to return.

If the Rapture happened today, it does not follow that the Tribulation would start tomorrow. The events are NOT related. Since that is the case, the PreTrib Rapture is the only version of Rapture that actually SUPPORTS the idea of a thief in the night. However, it is my belief that the reference to Jesus coming as a thief is referring to His physical SECOND coming. The Rapture is not part of the Second Coming at all. During the Rapture, Jesus does not return to the earth. He simply steps away from the throne room, out of the 3rd heaven and calls His bride up to Him. The Rapture has no bearing on the Tribulation or the Second Coming.

However, those who believe in a Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath, or Post-Trib Rapture would easily be able to figure out when the event was to take place. Not so with the PreTrib Rapture.

So, do you think I’ve convinced our friend? Nope (smile). He likely still believes I’m deceived and that God has told him to beat me over the head with his convoluted way of understanding Scripture until I either give in or he is given the signal to shake the dust off his feet where I’m concerned.

Folks, as I have said numerous times. It does not matter to me WHEN the Rapture happens. In fact, I might die before it ever occurs. What concerns me is the salvation of those who walk through this life and who do not know Jesus. Our friend has a blog and it appears his entire motivation for that blog has nothing to do with witnessing or evangelizing the lost. His entire blog (as far as I can tell) is to discount the PreTrib Rapture. That’s it. That’s his apparent mission in life, which tells me that he is being disobedient to the Great Commission at the very least.

I hope you’re not. I hope you are witnessing with your life and your words to those who do not know Jesus. Don’t waste time arguing about things that have no bearing on salvation (though our friend believes Eschatology does). In love and compassion, teach others about the love and compassion of Jesus. Teach them how He died for them so they might live.

When we stand before Jesus at the BEMA seat of judgment for the saved, Jesus will not be asking us “So, which version of Eschatology did you believe in?” He will be asking us how we lived, how we submitted ourselves to Him that He was given the opportunity to live in and through us that others might be changed and that ultimately, He would be given great glory.

Let the other stuff go.

Entry filed under: dispensationalism, israel, Posttribulational Rapture, Pretribulational Rapture, rapture, Religious - Christian - End Times, Religious - Christian - Prophecy, Religious - Christian - Theology.

Time in Which We Live…is it the Tribulation? What is the Coming Tribulation All About, Part 20


  • 1. Bonnie Culver  |  November 24, 2014 at 8:37 PM

    Thank you for your latest article. I had never thought about whether or not the rapture marked the beginning of the tribulation. That clears up an important question when you say the Peace pact with Satan is the beginning of the tribulation, and the pre-trib rapture, which I also believe in, does not effect salvation.

  • 2. Jason  |  November 23, 2014 at 10:22 PM

    my dad has the same beat you over the head until you submit attitude … He is an SDA and they are right, facts or no facts, just ask him and he will tell you such… when I disagree with him, that makes me wrong automatically despite the evidence

    • 3. modres  |  November 24, 2014 at 5:54 AM

      It’s a shame, isn’t it? I’m sure you pray for him. Keep that going and maybe the Lord will open his eyes one day to the truth.

  • 4. VICKI WARD  |  November 23, 2014 at 6:38 PM



    • 5. modres  |  November 23, 2014 at 7:14 PM

      Thank you, Vicki. Yes, let’s life up the blogger who is overly concerned with something that has no bearing on his salvation (or mine). Thank you for confirming to me what the Lord taught you. I appreciate it. God bless you!

  • 6. MARTHA Weitthoff  |  November 21, 2014 at 10:54 AM

    I agree with your pretrib. I am so disheartened over the turn our country has taken and the blundness to the many believers being gruesomely slaughtered..babies, children women, men metely because of their Christian beliefs. Satan has blinded those committing these henious acts making them think its not only their right..but that God approves & commands it. God of Heaven & earth does not, in fact their henious acts will grant them an eternal, totureous place in Hell. These non believers are the ones who will be brought before God at the Great White Throne Judgement. A place where you (non believers in Christ) do not want to be…

  • 7. Jonelle Vargo  |  November 21, 2014 at 9:06 AM

    AMEN! Salvation is the key of the New Testament. Next, walking with the Lord so our lives can help point the way to Jesus being the only way to Heaven.

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