Why Debating Blood Moons or Any Religious Topic is Pointless

September 29, 2015 at 7:04 AM 7 comments

TongueRecently, I was again reminded of why I wrote the book, “Apologetics Never Saved Anyone.” The reason I wrote it was due to the fact that more often than not, a debate (not a discussion), about a religious topic can quickly go south and turn into a war of words, complete with sarcastic overtones.

In Scripture it is noteworthy to realize that Jesus never really debated. He simply stated His opinion (which was always the truth, by the way) and let the chips fall where they might. Often people walked away, responded in anger, or boiled in their own anger without saying anything. It rarely went well for those who disagreed with Jesus.

Even Paul, in Mars Hill (Acts 17), tried his best to convince his listeners why they were wrong, but most of them wouldn’t have it. A riot almost resulted from the contentious situation arising from those who listened to Paul and got extremely angry because of it. Need we mention Stephen, the first Christian martyr of Acts 7? He also tried his best to convince the stubborn religious leaders of their error and was stoned to death because of it.

It is one thing to have a civil discussion over an issue within the context of religion. It is also one thing to share the gospel message with a person who does not know Jesus and do so in love, even if the person persists in refusing to see the truth. Only God can open that person’s eyes. The best we can do is continue to share the gospel message in season and out of season.

But it is far different when two people who hold opposing religious views simply start taking swipes at one another because of the differences they have over a particular issue. Such was the case today and I’ll admit, I will sometimes sidle up to and even put my arm around sarcasm, using it as a weapon against a brother or sister. It makes a point and while it is useful at times, it’s too easy for me to rely on it. For that I must continually lean on the Lord for His strength to overcome that temptation. It is best for me not to even go there because once I begin mucking around in sarcasm, it feels too good on my toes to hop back out of that pit.

Fortunately for me, the other guy I was “discussing” the subject with did the same thing. We were both wrong, but let me share a few tidbits of the conversation and you can decide. But most importantly, I’d like you to see how this debate ended. Notice the comments as we attempted to find some common ground, but couldn’t. I should also note that there was a history here. Previously, a few months back, we had agreed to disagree and I thought that was the end of it. Lately though, since the Shemitah and blood moons are behind us (though I believe that those who put stock and faith in these things will continue to bring them to the fore), I wanted to take some time to bring home some points so that those who might be on the fence over these issues might take another look at things.

It was after one article was posted at my social network site the unasked for debate began. One statement made by my friend had me originally thinking he believed in a secret rapture consisting only of those individuals who are truly longing for His return. The one qualifying statement he made was this one:

“In Revelation 3 God says because U have kept the word of my patience, i will keep U FROM the hour/Trib. Like Noah & Lott God will NOT allow his Bride to be battered & bruised before he takes us home! That’s why unlike U> I am encouraged by these SIGNALS of his Return. But feel free to stay behind & wait around for that unblessed hope of the Tribulation.”

If you note the very last statement, it can be taken two ways; 1) either only those who long for His appearing will be taken in the Rapture, or 2) I’m not saved because I’m not longing for the SIGNS of His return.

After continuing the discussion and querying him, he noted the following:

“of course ALL believers are caught up, if they’re truly blood washed. you don’t believe what Genesis, Joel & Acts have to say about these Blood Moon SIGNS and that’s your right i guess. But for me, i’m convinced that these are significant SIGNS cause God said he would send them as SIGNS. i guess time will show us hey? Like i said, there’s No reason to convince someone who doesn’t buy the Whole Bible that they are wrong, so why bother anymore? it’s your belief & your entitled to it. And i will continue to believe what he said about these prophetic signs=impasse=Later:)”

I appreciate the fact that he rejects a special or “secret” Rapture whereby only those who long for His return and are actually looking for it will be taken in it. I don’t believe the Bible teaches that and I’m glad to know my friend does not believe that either.

However, note his emphasis on a person who is “truly blood washed,” which for me, causes me to think that he thinks I’m not. Of course, I would agree with him that anyone who is not authentically saved will not be taken in the Rapture. That seems clear enough from Scripture.

But then please note that he says that I “don’t believe what Genesis, Joel & Acts have to say about these Blood Moon SIGNS and that’s your right i guess.” Yes, it is my right to believe that IF I can square things with Scripture. We’d already gone over the fact that I believe many of things he brought up in Genesis, Joel, and Acts, etc., refer to signs (that are actual specific judgment events [7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 bowls] of the coming Tribulation). While there are certain signs outside the Tribulation that signal the beginning of the birth pangs (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, et al), there are precious few and they are somewhat general. None of them are connected to heavenly events that supposedly mark “omens” for America or the world. They are wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, and Paul talks about the great falling away. These things lead up to the start of the Tribulation/Great Tribulation.

To believe that the Shemitah, which was given only to Israel, not America, or blood moons are somehow tied to God’s revealing signs is a stretch. In this particular article by Friends of Israel (FOI), I believe they debunk the whole thing. The article is 3 Reasons the Blood Moons Are NOT Biblical Signs and includes a nice video.

Among the things they note is also something my friend noted. He stated “The Last 2 Tetrads on Perfect Jewish Feast Days FOLLOWED a Major event=Israel’s rebirth & recapture of it’s Nation.”

In reality, according to FOI tells us this is not true at all.

“The problem correlating blood moons with these historical events is that some of the dates are off a bit. For instance, Israel’s independence happened in 1948, yet the first blood moon happened in April of 1949, after most of all the armistice lines were drawn between Israel and its enemies. In addition, the tetrad of blood moons didn’t begin until 1493, a year after the Jewish expulsion from Spain in 1492.”

FOI then asks and answers their own question regarding the above information.

“So do the blood moons happen during the events, like the Six-Day War in 1967, or do the come after the events, like Israel’s independence and the Jewish expulsion from Spain? These inconsistencies show how proponents of the view are stretching to make them fit into their presuppositions.”

But according to my friend, the blood moon occurred perfectly when Israel became a nation in 1948. How perfectly is perfect if the blood moon did not occur until April of 1949, but Israel was granted sovereign nation status by the UN nearly one year prior, in May of 1948? If we use this method, we can make the blood moons and the Shemitah appear to support nearly any event of our choosing.

In the above article by author Chris Katulka, he notes that there have been many events in Israel’s history where there were no signs in the heavens at all. In fact, during “the destruction of the Temple in 586 B.C. and A.D. 70, as well as the recent Holocaust (1938-1945),” nothing happened at all in the heavens.

How do we account for that? Why would God show no sign of impending doom for Israel then but now we are to believe that these signs represent omens for Israel and America? It really makes very little sense.

In the end, my suggestion would be to not enter into debate with those who have firmly placed their faith in the alleged signs that people like Jonathan Cahn, Mark Blitz, John Hagee, and others have ballyhooed. It has come to be extremely divisive, pitting brother/sister in the Lord against another brother/sister in the Lord. The world laughs and rightly so.

I would completely agree with Chris Katulka (and also mentioned this to my friend whom I was, unfortunately, debating). “There is only one biblical ‘blood moon’ that will happen in history and it will shine in the place of a darkened sun and burnt out stars when the Lord judges this world once for all.”

When Jesus appears, a sign of His coming will appear in the heavens. But in actuality, that sign IS His return. Matthew 24:29-31 says:

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.”

Notice here the sun goes dark. Because of that, there is also no moonlight. The stars fall from the sky, also going dark. In other words, just like when the lights go out in an auditorium just prior to the curtain going up, the same thing on a far grander scale will happen in the heavens when Jesus makes His way to this earth. The lights going out in an auditorium does one thing: it focuses our attention on the stage where we know events are about to unfold.

The lights going out in the sky (no blood moon even), will do the same thing. It will cause everyone to look UP. Try to imagine how DARK the sky will look. People will wonder, then the “sign” of His coming, which is what? His actual physical return. When He comes back, there will be NO celestial body that will compete with His return. It would pale in significance anyway. The lights go out, the “curtain” effectively goes up and there is Jesus for the entire world to see.

“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be,” Matthew 24:27.

Notice Jesus is saying “for just as…” which simply means that when lightning flashes in the sky, it goes from one end of the sky to the other, lighting up the entire sky for a brief second or two. When Jesus returns, He will light up the entire sky because of His GLORY and it won’t last just a few brief seconds either. It will turn a completely dark sky into DAY!

Are you ready for that? I hope you are longing for it. I hope that because of the surety of His physical return, you are working to spread the gospel message. I pray that you are not wasting your time focusing on “signs” that lead nowhere, but are instead, reaching out to the lost all around you, spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Many of us will probably die long before He returns. We must be about His business of fulfilling the Great Commission. Do not be caught falling asleep or running to and fro trying to capture the latest fad. Jesus is coming again and prior to the Rapture, there are NO signs. It could happen at any moment. But when Jesus physically returns at the end of the Tribulation, His actual return will be the biggest sign of all to those on earth that there is and has always been ONE God who RULES. At that point, He’s coming to the earth to take what is rightfully His and to rule over all the earth for 1,000 years before He destroys this earth and its heavens, replacing them with new ones.

Do NOT focus on the coming tidal wave of persecution. Do not focus on alleged signs. Focus on Jesus and Him only. Maranatha, Lord Jesus!

Sorry for the length of this post, but it was necessary. We are going to begin Daniel 1 very soon. Until then, may the Lord open your eyes to show you how blessed you are in Him!

Entry filed under: christianity, israel, Judaism, Posttribulational Rapture, Pretribulational Rapture, rapture, Religious - Christian - End Times, Religious - Christian - Prophecy, Religious - Christian - Theology, second coming. Tags: , , .

Can We Move Past Talk About Signs and Wonders Please? Christians Waste Too Much Time Being Concerned About America

7 Comments

  • 1. Sherry  |  September 29, 2015 at 2:44 PM

    OK, I gotta ask because This is confusing me. You said, “I appreciate the fact that he rejects a special or “secret” Rapture whereby only those who long for His return and are actually looking for it will be taken in it. I don’t believe the Bible teaches that and I’m glad to know my friend does not believe that either.”

    Do you mean that you don’t believe the Rapture will be a secret one? I think that’s what you are saying but I wanted to be sure. I don’t see how it will be when its going to cause such havoc!

    I’m getting ready to read an apologist’s view on the Rapture-he’s anti-pre-trib and has accused me of believing a Jesuit false prophecy. I like to learn about others’ views but his foundation is one I’ve never heard of: that Paul was warning the Thessalonian believers not to believe in a pre-trib rapture…now just where would these believers get such a notion of a pre-trib rapture if there was supposedly no such a thing taught to them? Well, I’ll see how long it takes before he insults me like others have done by presuming that we pre-tribbers are escapists and sitting on our behinds doing nothing for the Kingdom while we await our escape…oh, I am an escapist! Jesus made it so! \o/

    • 2. modres  |  September 29, 2015 at 3:38 PM

      No, I’m referring to people who believe that only those Christians who are actively looking for His return will be taken in the Rapture. The rest of the Christians, according to some, will remain here to be “purified” via the Tribulation. I originally thought that’s what my friend meant, but he said he didn’t mean that and that all true Christians will go up in the Rapture.
      This view – that only Christians looking for and longing for His return will be taken in this special or “secret” Rapture is not new. Of course, I don’t see any validity in believing it because it simply has no basis in Scripture.
      I hope you aren’t wasting your time with this anti-PreTribber. I’ve dealt with too many and they go for the jugular almost immediately. Their favorite accusation is that we are deceived and deceiving others. As soon as it comes to that, I’m done with the conversation because of all the hubris emanating from them. They usually become even cockier after that. Waste of time. It’s better to simply pray for them and give them to God.

      • 3. Sherry  |  September 29, 2015 at 4:37 PM

        No sir! I have it pictured in my mind that you are telling me not to waste my time with him. 🙂 But, my BIG mouth got me into it where I said I would give consideration to his teaching. I let him know that it mattered not if it was a Jesuit who first taught it since scriptures are the authority and that false teachers don’t always teach everything falsely. It will be interesting and an exercise in discernment. Besides! If he teaches falsely I have to let him know! Naw, I think this is a case where it needs to be dropped. Let him alone. He has an arrogance about him that tells me it will do no good to persuade him of his errors.

        Thanks, modres, for answering my question-now I see what you mean. The Left Behind books are haunting us…arrgh! ></

  • 4. The Messenger  |  September 29, 2015 at 11:36 AM

    The rapture has already happened. It occured on September 11, 2001. So, Hagee has it somewhat correct. These 4 blood moons were the apocalyptic blood moons – that is: a revealing of hidden information or, in layman’s terms, the revealing of the Antichrist, who will soon be taken into federal custody. I should know. I wrote it.

    • 5. modres  |  September 29, 2015 at 11:53 AM

      I’m not sure if your comment is largely a joke or if you’re being serious, but I’ll assume that you’re being serious. The Rapture has actually not happened. I don’t recall seeing millions of Christians being “caught up” to meet the Lord in the air as Paul explains in 1 Thessalonians 1:17. In that case, millions of people would be gone instantly. That hasn’t happened yet.

      Regarding Hagee, the blood moons don’t reveal anything except that they are naturally-occurring events of heavenly bodies. I completely disagree with the notion that events in the sky related to the sun, the moon, or stars are necessarily signs that portend omens of any kind outside of the Tribulation. There are plenty of celestial events that occur within the coming Tribulation, but those “signs” if you will, are actual events of judgment as God pours out His wrath upon the people of this earth.

      The Antichrist will be revealed just as Paul says he will be in 2 Thessalonians 2. It won’t be a blood moon that reveals him but his actions that tell the world who he is and as far as him being federally prosecuted, in all likelihood, the coming Antichrist will not come from the United States so the U.S. will have no jurisdiction over him.

      Not sure what you are saying you wrote, but doesn’t sound like anything I’d be interested in reading.

  • 6. Sherry  |  September 29, 2015 at 9:37 AM

    Here is irony for you-my favorite quote comes from John Hagee: “Truth is still true whether you choose to believe it or not.’

    We must let our brothers and sisters know when they are erring but as far as any contentious debates over “debatable things” let it go. A lot of beliefs that Christians have lead them to worshiping another “Jesus” so we must do our level best to snatch them out of the fire. I have found, though, that belaboring scriptural truth to those who just cannot see it because God has yet to open their eyes about it tended towards putting the focus on me and not on God. I’ve had to realize that unless God sows the seed of His Word on the good soil no one is going to believe the truth about what displeases Him, such as, for example, the celebrating of pagan religious festivals with Jesus holy name slapped on it and the liberty we do not have in doing so.

    Truth is just not debatable. But Paul did say, “Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth?” Tell the truth, just don’t get into ugly contentions about it. “Be at peace with one another as much as it depends on you.” Paul and Barnabas had to go separate ways to keep the peace between them. Like you have said often, our witness to Christ must be paramount. It is already hard enough to share the gospel with the unsaved due to the bad witness of Christians towards their brethren.

    God bless you, modres! Maranatha!

    • 7. modres  |  September 29, 2015 at 9:37 AM

      Thank you! I agree 😀


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