What, No Rapture at All? Let’s Look at Reasoning for that Belief

July 9, 2015 at 8:28 AM 18 comments

raptureI am “friends” with a person on a social network who is very opinionated (nothing wrong with that), but of late, I’ve realized that some of her viewpoints are a bit skewed, to say the least. For some time now, I’ve been on the receiving end of numerous attacks from people who do not believe that the Bible teaches a PreTrib Rapture event. I’ve gotten used to their vitriol and false accusations.

This though is a bit different. If you read her words below, you’ll see that she does not believe in any rapture at all. This is not really that unusual because many people do not believe that there is any sort of rapture in the future for Christians. It’s how she arrives at her opinion that is very odd and, dare I say, fully incorrect as we’ll see.

My issue is how she interprets Scripture and that’s what I want to focus on here in this article. Again, I’m not going to spend time trying to prove (or not) the fact of the rapture. I want to take her argument apart and see if there is any real truth to it. Take the time to read through her comments a few times, will you? She is speaking to someone named “Raymond” and I have not edited her comments at all.

So you believe in the rapture theory? And you don’t believe all God’s prophecies are unfolding before our eyes, Raymond. Please research scripture a bit more and dont listen to man. There will be no rapture. You rely on 1 Thess which is taught incorrectly. “Clouds” are large groups of people — these “clouds” are those that have already passed on and are with God (the people around His throne); meeting God in the “air” is not literal — “Air” in Greek is “pneuma” which means “spirit”. In other words, we will meet Him in our spiritual bodies. It’s the only way we can meet Him, because He is spirit. Paul wrote the 2nd letter to the Thessalonians to clarify that, please read it starting at verse one. It clearly explains that Jesus will NOT be coming back until the “man of perdition” (Satan) appears first claiming to be the Jew’s Messiah, the Christian’s Jesus, and the Moozies 9th Imam, etc. He will be all things to all people and the whole world will whore after him except those of us who know who he is. Here, Raymond, to get you started: 2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Some of the comments above are very reminiscent of those who have been or are part of the The Family International,” the “Children of God,” or the “Family of Love. Whether that is the case here or not, I can’t be sure. But please note that the individual quoted above without equivocation states that “clouds” are large groups of people and then further states that the word “air” is not to be taken literally because it means “spirit” (pneuma). Here’s the problem. She is clearly referencing the passage in Hebrews in which we learn that there is a great “cloud” of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1):

“Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us…”

In this case, the writer of Hebrews is certainly using the term “cloud” in a symbolic sense. That much can be clearly seen from the context itself, which is often the best way to determine meaning. However, let’s look at Acts 1:9, where Jesus is seen to be taken up into the clouds. The text tells us…

“And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.”

The “He” in the text of course is Jesus. He actually ascended into the sky and was hidden out of sight by a cloud. In this case, should we assume that Jesus ascended into (and through) an actual cloud, or should we use the metaphorical meaning found in Hebrews 12:1? I think it is evident that when Jesus ascended into the sky above Him, He would likely have eventually gone into and through a cloud, a real grouping of ice crystals or water drops that form a body of what we call the “white stuff.” This would have blocked the disciples’ view of Him and helped snap them out of it, so to speak. There is actually no reason to take the cloud mentioned in Acts 1 as symbolic of something else, or that it means “a large group of people” as our friend wants to do with the passage in
1 Thessalonians.

She says that the word for “clouds” should be taken to mean “large groups of people.” The actual word used in the Greek text in the Thessalonians passage is nephelais and it literally means actual “clouds” in the sky. The usage of it in Hebrews is a different word completely. It is nephos, which can mean a mass of clouds as in a “great multitude.” When used figuratively (as the writer in Hebrews clearly does), it then can mean a great multitude of people, but only when used figuratively. There is no reason to take the word figuratively every time it is used in Scripture as it depends mainly on context.

For instance, the word “left” has several meanings, doesn’t it? It can refer to a direction traveled, it can mean how much one has remaining after using the rest, or it can relate to how a person thinks (e.g. politically). In fact, the word “left” can be an adjective, an adverb, or a noun. What determines that? Context, something our friend appears to be ignoring.

She does the same with the word “pneuma.” Unfortunately for our friend, the exact Greek word used in that portion of Scripture (Thessalonians) is aera, not pneuma. Because she believes (wrongly) that the word being used is pneuma, which is generally understood to be “spirit” in English, she then interprets the passage incorrectly, which makes sense she is using the incorrect word at the start. The Greek word actually used is aera, which correlates to our English word “air” and means the air above the earth.

You can see where her error takes her. She has interpreted the passage completely erroneously but to make matters worse, as can be understood from her “tone,” she is adamant that hers is the correct understanding and anyone who does not see it her way is simply and completely wrong. In fact, I tried to gently offer some correction to her, but she would have none of it. I was simply wrong and she doubled down.

When discussing things of this nature, it is important to leave the dogma on the side. That is not to say that people cannot have solid opinions about something. However, the way in which we discuss is important and those who believe they are on the same “team” so to speak, should approach things with grace. Unfortunately for her, no matter how I tried to offer my opinion – which differs from hers markedly – it didn’t matter. It was as though she couldn’t hear me. I’m sure she couldn’t because she was so involved in ensuring that her opinion was the only one that carried weight.

She does the same thing regarding her belief that the Antichrist IS Satan. I believe the Bible teaches that the Antichrist will be fully empowered by Satan, but will be a separate individual. In fact, Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet together form the unholy trinity, as they attempt to mirror the true Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. When I pointed that out to her, it fell on deaf ears and she simply repeated her claim that Satan IS the Antichrist. Oh well. A person like this is not interested in the actual give and take of discussion. She is interested only in her opinion. That’s all that matters to her.

Unfortunately, it was easy to show where she went wrong. Equally as unfortunate is the fact that she cannot see it, as obvious as it is to see. My advice – if you’re asking – is to avoid entering into arguments that serve no purpose. We need to heed the apostle Paul’s words here when he says, “But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless,” (Titus 3:9). State your opinion and note the response. If you hit a brick wall, continued debate is pointless.

Entry filed under: christianity, Posttribulational Rapture, Pretribulational Rapture, rapture, Religious - Christian - End Times, Religious - Christian - Prophecy, Religious - Christian - Theology, salvation.

Don Francisco’s Burgeoning Universalism, Part 2 An Open Letter from John MacArthur Regarding SCOTUS Decision

18 Comments

  • 1. David  |  July 10, 2015 at 11:30 AM

    Fred,
    I love following your blogs. They are “spot on!” I don’t mean to detract from this discussion but I was wondering if you have written anything on the parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew 25:1-13?

    I have read over it a number of times and I had some questions regarding who the virgins represent – the fact they all had oil but the wise ones had extra also what does the oil represent?

    • 2. modres  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:07 PM

      Hey David, thanks for your kind words. Not sure I’m always “spot on,” but I certainly try to be.

      With respect to the 10 virgins, there are some interesting thoughts out there. I think – generally – Jesus is teaching about the concept of waiting for the return of the King in a prudent, discerning way. Too many people – both professing and true Christians – seem to be completely unconcerned about the approaching day of judgment, which is what will occur when Jesus returns to this earth physically.

      I believe that all ten of these virgins represent Jewish individuals during the Tribulation period. I realize that there are varying opinions on this, but Constable, Fruchtenbaum, and others believe that they represent Jewish individuals and the time frame appears to be during the Tribulation because they are waiting for the PHYSICAL return of the Bridegroom, not the Rapture.

      At the same time, ALL believers are to have a watchful eye because we do not know when our lives here will end (either in death or via the Rapture). We must watch AND work continually because as long as we are here, we need to be about the Lord’s work, which is fulfilling the Great Commission. I truly believe the more we are aware of the brevity of life and the Lord’s physical return, the more we will see the great need for evangelism throughout the world and especially where we live. Unfortunately, too many now believe that Jesus “returned” in AD 70 and that His physical return is not taught in Scripture. These are part of the group that makes up the naysayers (where is the promise of His coming?).

      Interestingly enough, the text does not actually say that ALL ten virgins originally had oil (only five did), though I suppose one might argue that it is implied. I would disagree with that though. “Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps,” (Matthew 25:2-4). In this text, it states that the five foolish virgins had NO oil, but they DID have lamps. Both groups took lamps, but only the prudent virgins also took oil.

      There is no sign that it was necessary that any of the virgins actually LIT their lamps until they heard the cry “Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.” In the first part of the parable, all virgins simply HAVE lamps (though the five prudent virgins also had oil). They did not have the need to LIGHT them until later. It was at THAT point – after hearing the cry – when the virgins rose to actually LIGHT their lamps for the first time. The prudent virgins HAD oil, while the foolish virgins did not. Of course, the foolish virgins wanted the prudent to share but there was not enough oil to go around.

      Much discussion has been done surrounding the meaning of the wise and foolish virgins. It seems clear to me that the oil represents the Holy Spirit – but I could be wrong about that – and if so, it is also clear that only the prudent virgins had oil. The foolish virgins were like the Jews of Jesus’ day who simply thought they were saved because Abraham was their “father.” That didn’t cut it and both John the Baptist and Jesus pointed that out to Jews living them, but it didn’t make any difference for most Jews who continued to cling to the belief that having Abraham as their “father” was good enough.

      The whole of the symbolism here that Jesus uses is referencing the Jewish marriage process and the call to preparedness. There are numerous steps to it. The virgins – all of them – should have been waiting diligently for the return of the bridegroom. They should have had oil ready to go for their lamps, but of course, five of them didn’t because they were not true believers. Even though ALL fell asleep (which does NOT imply the virgins were careless or lacked commitment!), the prudent vergins were still very much “ready” to meet their bridegroom because they actually had oil, which allowed them to trim (light) their lamps while it was DARK so that they could see their way to meet the bridegroom.

      I don’t think the emphasis is on the oil at all, but on the preparedness of the individual. Overall, I believe that Jesus is warning people to be ready because we do not know when our life will end here (either through death or rapture). More specifically, I believe Jesus is warning all Jews (who will be alive during the coming Tribulation) that they also need to be ready because they will not know the day or hour that Jesus will return.

      For more on this, I suggest looking at commentaries by Dr. Thomas Constable: http://www.soniclight.com/constable/notes.htm

      Picking up Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum’s book “Footsteps of the Messiah” is also a wonderful addition to your library.

      Hope this helps!e

      • 3. David  |  July 11, 2015 at 6:36 AM

        Fred,
        Thanks so much for your explanation. It has given me a much better understanding of this parable. One thing that was throwing off a bit was the fact that I was reading this parable using the NLT version of the Bible and it says in verse 3;
        “The five who were foolish didn’t take “enough” olive oil for their lamps” but as you mentioned in your explanation the foolish virgins took “no” oil. After checking I found that the KJV, NIV, NASB, and ESV all say the the foolish virgins too “no” oil.

        I was thinking that if the oil represented the Holy Spirit how could the foolish virgins not have “enough” (NLT) and the wise virgins had “extra.” Verse 3 NLT; “but the other five were wise enough to take along “extra” oil.” Because I was focused on the oil I was thinking how can one group not have “enough” of the Holy Spirit and the other group have “extra”? That was throwing me off a bit. “Not enough oil” and “no oil” are two different things. Shows how important it is to compare translations.

        I agree with you. I was putting too much emphasis on the oil when being “prepared” is what Jesus was trying to get across in this parable.

        Thanks for the commentary link. What a great resource! I also found a copy of Footsteps of the Messiah. Looking forward to reading that as well.

        May God continue to bless all that you do!

      • 4. modres  |  July 11, 2015 at 6:48 AM

        Glad to help!

  • 5. AntiLieGuy  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:18 AM

    Back to the rapture that is not in the Bible, The day no one knows is when the gods return in numbers and bring us Israelites back home and look like heroes. The Bible says it will be about 70 years or 7 generations after this war. The date of the war is 10-10 and it looks like this year with the economic collapse. They tell us whats happening, like the movies 2012, Armageddon, End of Days, Red Dawn. The news is all controlled lies. Medicine is poison. Education is indoctrination. Churches destroy spirituality. You can see the lies everywhere.

    And that “born again in the spirit” thing, thats real. We can leave our bodies at will if we train our minds. We can see anything anywhere anytime, thats why images are spiritual fornication and that evil tv liebox is the image of the beast in the Bible. It is used to lie to the whole world. You live in a society far more advanced than Orwells 1984 and its all about to end.

    • 6. modres  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:50 PM

      Look, when you learn how to rightly divide the Word of truth, come back and we can discuss it. As it is, though we are talking about the same book – the Bible – we are worlds apart as far as our interpretations are concerned. No one knowing the day or hour has to do with the 2nd Coming of Jesus and no one will know the day or hour. That has nothing to do with the Rapture at all even though no one will know the day or hour of that event either.

      Regarding the length of a generation, you cannot dogmatically state a generation is 70 years because it varies in the Bible.

      Not all churches destroy spirituality. The writer of Hebrews says that we should not forsake the gathering together of believers in the local setting (Hebrews 10:25), yet that is what you appear to have done. You have made a sweeping generalization about all visible/local churches which is simply not true.

      God has specifically created the Church (which is represented by the local body of believers that tie into the one, INVISIBLE Church or Body of Christ) for believers. There are many rules and policies laid down by Paul and others regarding the local body of believers. People who go it on their own are making a huge mistake, but of course, if a particular fellowship is out of sync with God’s Word, then the person should leave that one and find one that follows God’s Word. Instead, you are out there on your own in direct violation of God’s Word. It’s no wonder you have arrived to the conclusions you have arrived at.

      We cannot leave our bodies whenever we want. That is called astral projection and it has NOTHING to do with what Jesus explains to Nicodemus in John 3. Being born again or born from above means that we are baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit in the spiritual realm. It also means we are sealed with the Holy Spirit so that our salvation remains intact. It has nothing to do with soul travel. Paul says to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord and he is talking about our DEATH (2 Corinthians 5:6-8). At death, our soul separates itself from our bodies and we are IMMEDIATELY ushered into the Lord’s presence.

      I agree that we are living in the end of days – the last days – but bear in mind that the last days BEGAN with the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Paul said he was living in the last days too. Time is most certainly progressing toward Armageddon, but Armageddon is the very last thing that will happen and it will happen at the end of the 7 year period known as the Tribulation. I believe we are not far from the start of the Tribulation.

      God is a God of ORDER. He has written His Word in a way that is comprehensible if one is diligent enough to study it, to show yourself approved, a workman who needs not be ashamed (2 Timothy 2:15). Unfortunately, you are trying to interpret God’s Word through the events that happen in society.

      I’d offer to pray for you that God would give you understanding, but I seriously doubt that you think you need my prayers or anyone’s for that matter. Brother, I’m not sure where you are getting your far-feteched ideas, but I would encourage you to fully REJECT them as they have no bearing in Scriptural truth.

  • 7. AntiLieGuy  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:54 AM

    America is the Mountains of Israel. This country is described unmistakably. The war is the main topic of over half the books, Amos and Ezekiel being two of the best. Certain characteristics tell its the same war. Nukes for one, the fire that melts mountains and makes all heads bald. From the North, Russia even nicknamed their Arctic command “North.” Modern military jets are described in 3 chapters of Ezekiel. Helicopter and Yellowstone devastation are described in the whack book of Revelation. The way you know it is now is that the war will happen 430 days or about 2 years before Planet X (Nibiru) goes around the sun. That will end the war.

    Read this doc and start with the description of the USA from the Bible around the middle of the doc. Then go read Amos and Ezekiel several times. Pay attention the the descriptions. Names follow people too, not places. Micah says “What are the high places of Israel, is it not Jerusalem?”

    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/73756367/WarNews

    • 8. modres  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:24 AM

      No, the Mountains of Israel are IN Israel. You are delusional and your method of interpretation is just sad. Both Amos and Ezekiel discuss aspects of Armageddon (and Ezekiel discusses the Northern Invasion in which the leader of Magog (from the North of Israel), turns his eyes to Israel and decides to attack them for their spoils (Ezekiel 38-39).

      I’m not sure where you’ve gotten your information, but the truth is that you appear to be allegorizing everything that is clearly stated in Scripture. The Mountains of Israel have ALWAYS referenced the actual mountain range in Israel that runs from north to south.

      Charles Manson thought he understood the book of Revelation as well, but he made the same mistake you are making – you are allegorzing Scripture when there is absolutely no need to do so.

      Actually, what we re reading about in Ezekiel 3 has to do with the Living Beings that are always in the Lord’s presence. These are not helicopters at all anymore than what is described in Ezekiel 1 has to do with military machinery. In Ezekiel 1, we read about how the prophet Ezekiel described what he saw and he did his best to describe the GLORY of the Lord.

      According to Daniel 9, specifically verse 27, the coming Tribulation cannot begin until the Antichrist brokers a seven year covenant with Israel and the surrounding Arab nations for peace. This peace treaty will last only 3.5 years before the Antichrist desolates the temple that will have been rebuilt.

      The seven year Tribulation period clearly discussed and outlined in Daniel 9 leads UP to and includes the coming Battle of Armageddon. It’s all clearly outlined in the book of Revelation (which is NOT a “whack” book at all). Armageddon is Satan’s war against God and it ends as Jesus returns to this earth and destroys the Antichrist with the breath of His mouth and the presence of His return.

      You are WAY off. The full length of the Tribulation is 7 years (2,520 days; 7 x 360 days for the Jewish calendar) and Armageddon will occur at the END of it.

      The Northern Invasion spoken of by Ezekiel (Ezekiel 38-39) has nothing directly to do with the United States. It is all about Israel. The Scripture is as plain as day. It cannot be anymore clear yet folks prefer their own “allegorical” interpretation.

      You have absolutely NO good reason at all to say that the “Mountains of Israel” is America. None. Zilch. Nada. You have ARRIVED to that conclusion somehow based on your allegorical interpretation so you are sticking with it. The truth of the matter is that God’s Word is very PLAIN and should be taken in its plain meaning (literally).

      If I went through your comments and applied allegorical meanings to them, I could come away with something you never intended to say, couldn’t I? I would be wrong through, wouldn’t I? Yet, this is what people do all the time with the Bible as if it is a book of magic and has three levels of meaning for every passage. God is far more direct than that.

      I’m sure I won’t convince you. You quote Micah, yet you fail to observe the obvious. Micah is actually saying (from the Lord) that both Samaria and Jerusalem (capitols of the northern and southern kingdoms at this point), were little more than high places of idolatry and rebellion than worship.

      Armageddon is a ways off. The Tribulation has to occur first and it culminates in Armageddon. What you fail to see is that God’s Word is all about His unfolding plan of redemption. This is exactly WHY Israel is the center of His Word and the center of the WORLD as far as God is concerned. Both the Northern Invasion and Armageddon will take place in Israel.

      You know, you refer to churches as “stupid,” which is arrogant to say the least and it’s all because they don’t see things your way? How arrogant to believe that you and you alone have the correct interpretation of God’s Word. Unfortunately, you are far from the correct interpretation because you have placed such a high value on allegory. By doing that, you can make the Bible say anything and you’ve proven it.

      The Bible says either one thing or nothing. I believe it says one thing and it is from God. In that regard, it is our job to understand the Bible from God’s perspective, not man’s.

      I’m sorry but your interpretations are absolutely terrible. There is no substance and your interpretive methods are pitiful. I wish I could say that in a more positive way, but there is nothing there that even remotely connects back to Scripture, I’m sorry to say.

      Why don’t you try simply reading the Bible and allow the Bible to interpret itself. It always does that.

  • 9. Sherry  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM

    I like listening to different opinions on Bible prophecy since that is an area that I believe we can differ on for the most part. But I would have quit listening to her explanations in this comment alone when she called muslims, “moozies.” Its the spirit behind it which is disrespectful to others in an errant belief system and I find no biblical warrant for it. And it will spill over to anyone in disagreement. The temptation to mock those who disagree is there.

    Yesterday I went to a fellow blogger’s site and saw a Daniel’s 70th Week Prophecy Explained(?) video by Paul Flynn. Before 10 minutes into it I closed out the window. Two things: one, there was no discussion-which is OK, I understand why, but I prefer to see how others agree or disagree to it when I am trying to learn about the subject-that all prohecies have been fulfilled by the time of the destruction of Jerusalem. Something about the 490 years thing that I wanted to understand…and two, the man completely misunderstands what reading the Bible literally means and he was rather disdaining of those who do that. As you know, I don’t like learning from those who are going to degrade those who believe differently. Point out the faults that you see, yes, but when one has to belittle to make their argument rise above others’ beliefs is a turn off to me. So, if anyone wants my attention to their beliefs do it civilly! 🙂

    BTW, I do get where she is coming from when she points out that we will see the Man of Sin first…this trips me up. Do you have a quick explanation of that? Thanks~

    • 10. modres  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:41 AM

      It is very difficult to listen to someone who is so dogmatic that there is no room for discussion. The person you are talking about (video by Paul Flynn) confuses being literal with being literalistic. It is a common mistake, but one that many refuse to acknowledge. There is a huge difference in taking things literally and literalistically.

      For instance, a road sign that says “Fine for Littering” when taken LITERALLY means “don’t litter or you will be fined!” However, when taken LITERALISTICALLY (as someone on the Autism Spectrum might do) would understand the sign to be saying, “It’s FINE to litter!”

      While I take the Bible literally – as I take people in every day conversation – I do not take it literalistically. Taking things literally allows for metaphors, figures of speech, etc., whereas taking things literalistically does NOT.

      Regarding the text that we will see the man of sin first…”Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction,” 2 Thessalonians 2:3 – there are essentially THREE events that will lead up to the start of the Tribulation period:

      1. the great apostasy
      2. the revealing of the man of sin
      3. the removal of the restraint against evil

      Commentators like Thomas Constable believe (and I concur) that Paul presented these events in a LOGICAL, not necessarily CHRONOLOGICAL fashion. These three events WILL occur before the beginning of the “day of the Lord” (Tribulation and all its judgments).

      The apostasy is now happening in a far greater measure than it was during Paul’s day. We are seeing this at an astounding growth rate throughout the visible Church. We both know this. In my opinion, Paul is saying that both the apostasy AND the revelation of the man of sin will not happen in full measure until AFTER the restraint is removed. This will occur with the Rapture. I go over this in great detail in my latest book – Technocracy to Tribulation.

      Once the Church is raptured, the Holy Spirit will no longer have the Church to work in and through and whether people believe it or not, the invisible Church has been the arm of restraint that the Holy Spirit has chosen to use in these last days. Once the true Church is gone, so is that restraint as the Holy Spirit moves aside. Just as a dam that held millions of cubic feet of water breaks apart, allowing that water to rush in destroying/flooding everything in its path, so too will evil that has been held back/in check by the true Church also rush into fill the vacuum created by the absence of the Church.

      Once the Church is gone, the apostasy that is now occurring in society will ENLARGE itself on a global scale and God will also send His delusion which will allow people to more easily embrace the lie. The absence of the Church and the restraining power of the Holy Spirit through the Church will also provide the way and means for the Antichrist to step up onto the world’s stage and broker a covenant with Israel and the surrounding Arab nations for a 7 year “peace” deal, which is the kick-off event of the Tribulation period.

      I agree with Constable and others that Paul’s three-part list here in 2 Thessalonians 2 is a logical but not chronological progression of events. The reason for that is due to the fact that the apostasy began in Paul’s day and has been growing since. Over the past few generations, this same apostasy has made momentous gains throughout society, especially here in America. But it can only go so far as long as the Church remains. Once the Church is gone and the Holy Spirit stands down, so to speak, the apostasy will completely envelope the world as the delusion spreads and evil will flood into the world filling the vacuum that the Church’s absence has created.

      Things can only go so far with the Church here as God’s arm of restraint against evil, but things are still moving forward. Does this make sense? If not, let me know and I’ll try to explain it better 🙂

      • 11. Sherry  |  July 14, 2015 at 5:35 PM

        Thank you for the explanations-first, on reading the Bible literalisticly, such as one with autism would do in their reading…I am married to a man with Asperger’s Syndrome and do know that even talking to him in a joking manner does not go over too well, and double entendres(sp) goes over his head! It does keep me from disobeying God’s Word about joking around and coarse jesting, though! Even though Mr. Flynn did as many do in confusing the two, I would overlooked it if he had not been insulting!

        OK, my mistake is that I think of “the day” as the day of the Rapture, that we will see this man of sin before the Rapture happens. I think this is a throwback from when I was studying the mid-trib Rapture years ago…? Yes, your explanation makes sense-I want to blush from embarrassment! 😳

        And, thank you for posting Constable’s Bible Commentary on another post’s comment line. I’ve already used it today concerning Jezebel of the Church of Thyatira.

        My apologies for taking so long in getting back to you but I had computer issues…Some say that you will know your true spiritual condition when you stub your toe against the foot of the bed in the middle of the night (ouch!)…for me, its dealing with computer issues… 😡

      • 12. modres  |  July 14, 2015 at 5:43 PM

        Your comments are always enjoyable to read 😉

      • 13. Sherry  |  July 14, 2015 at 6:08 PM

        YW! \o/

    • 14. modres  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:56 PM

      By the way, I forgot to note your comments about how she refers to Muslims as “moozies.” She also refers to President Obama in very unkind ways – even using swear words. The truth is that this is not how Daniel comported himself with Nebuchadnezzar. It is not how Jesus referred to Herod. Though he DID refer to him as a “fox,” which was not complementary, He did so because Herod was passing himself off as a real Jew, but he was only one politically.

      The amount of vitriol that is expressed by many today, in the Name of God, is anathema to Him. It brings Him no glory and does a terrible disservice. But these are also the people who would take up arms against the government, something I would never consider doing. Either God is in charge or He is not in charge. It cannot be both ways.

      Paul says we should live quiet lives, minding our own business (as far as the world is concerned; 1 Thessalonians 4:11). He also tells Timothy to submit to kings and those in authority over us (1 Timothy 2:2) because they were placed/allowed in their position by God. Certainly, we should not do what the government forces us to do if that means denying Christ, but in general, we are to act as Jesus acted.

      People become so angry with President Obama and others as though it is up to US to make a difference! God is allowing all of this to get this world to its preordained conclusion. He is not remiss nor have things slipped by Him unnoticed. He is also NOT waiting for Christians to do something because His hands are supposedly tied unless we do.

      God is in charge. Always has been. Always will be. Nothing can or will ever change that. You and I both know it.

      • 15. Sherry  |  July 14, 2015 at 5:48 PM

        I agree with you! I’ve even gone over my blog and removed a few posts that were purposefully unflattering to President Obama. Now, who was that evil ruler in Paul’s day?

        I’m thinking that those who are working hard at making our world ready for Christ’s return and ruler-ship (dominionists) are more than willing to take up arms to speed along His return.

      • 16. modres  |  July 14, 2015 at 5:59 PM

        Yep, I agree that dominionists will likely usher things along.

  • 17. AntiLieGuy  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:42 AM

    There is no rapture. Amos 5:18 says “Woe unto those who wait for the day of the Lord,…,for the day of the Lord is darkness and not light.”

    If you read your Bible and ignore the stupid churches you will learn what it says.

    In October, the completely evil US government will do another false flag using a nuke and blamed on Iran. That same day, amerikka-the-stupid will be nuked and annihilated by Russia, China and the SCO. They have put their hardware in the arctic. The Bible says “from the North.”

    Planet X will end the war. Thats what the toxic chemtrails have been hiding every day globally for over a decade and the stupid sheeple havent done a thing to stop the evil criminals.

    The “god” who made you to be a gold mining slave is on this planet, along with the rest of them. Theyre returning now to take the gold but first theyre going to make the stupid human cattle destroy much of themselves first so there will be no resistance. They will return in numbers about 70 years after this war, collect us and look like heroes while they planned it all along. They also plan to reengineer our DNA to make us better slaves: “I will write it into your hearts to follow my law.”

    In conclusion, enjoy your Russian nukes you slave.

    • 18. modres  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:59 AM

      Look, you are entitled to your OPINION and that’s what it is. You are confusing the “day of the Lord” with the Rapture. The two are NOT connected. The “day of the Lord” starts with the Tribulation and culiminates with the physical return of Jesus. The Rapture does not enter into that, but yes, the “day of the Lord” will be absolute darkness and judgment. God will pour out His wrath onto this world that has chosen to rebel against Him and is doing everything it can to throw of the “chains” of God (Psalm 2).

      Your “from the North” is completely and utterly wrong. That term – “from the North” is referencing ISRAEL/Jerusalem, not the US. The reality is that as far as God is concerned, Israel/Jerusalem is the center of the world (Ezekiel 5:5).

      If you actually read your Bible and determined to understand God’s meaning, you might be further along. In reality though, look at your attitude. How are you even coming CLOSE to obeying the terms that Paul outlines to both Timothy and Titus? You’re argumentative, obnoxious, and callous.

      Are you even a Christian? You sound like you have absolutely no clue as to what it actually means to be a Christian. If you can’t post something reasonable, intelligent, and articulate, don’t bother posting at all, all right? Thank you.


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