What Can We Expect or Hope For Now that Election is Over?
November 9, 2016 at 7:48 AM 14 comments
To those celebs who vowed to leave America if Donald Trump became president, we’ll wait while you pack your bags. Not leaving? Gee, no surprise. Not interested in hearing their reasons for deciding to stay.
I went to bed last night firmly believing that I would awake to learn Hillary would become the next president of the United States. I was wrong and all I could do was laugh. It seems so absurd, that there must be something else going on behind the scenes unseen.
But the votes are in and Hillary has officially conceded. It was a decisive victory with no “hanging chads” that needed to be viewed under a magnifying glass. Donald Trump has given us his victory speech. The Trump Administration takes effect in January 2017. Done deal.
Has any of this taken God by surprise? Of course not. In fact, from what we know of our God, it is fair and accurate to say He saw this before the foundations of the earth. Is it earth-shaking news? Not to Him. To many it is undoubtedly, but I would hasten to add that it might be earth-shaking to some because their eyes are too often on men and not God.
People like Mark Taylor (and other self-appointed prophets), will no doubt take all of this in stride, smiling from ear-to-ear. Their predictions about America’s next president seemingly came true, right?
But are they really prophets? Not in the biblical sense at all. Had they started broadcasting their predictions about Donald Trump long before this election, before candidates started lining up to lay claim to the Oval Office, long before any names were being bandied about, then these self-appointed prophets might have some credibility in my eyes. After all, this is the way the prophets of old actually worked. Long (and I do mean long), before anything came to pass, God would send men He specifically appointed to bring messages and warnings to His one created nation, Israel. Sometimes, the voices of the prophets would rise up hundreds of years before an actual prophesied event took place.
Why did God speak (most of the time through His chosen prophets; anointed men of old), so far ahead of events to prophesy that they were coming? For two reasons. First, God wanted everyone in Israel (and oftentimes the world itself), to know that what He said would come to pass would come to pass and He would use hand-picked human beings called prophets to foretell these events way before the actual events themselves occurred so that no one could claim to have seen it coming through situations that may have been in the work at the time. Read Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, or Revelation to get a sense of just how far in advance God would speak. Second, because it gave plenty of time for Israel to repent, turn around, and begin seeking God’s face again.
Because of the accuracy of the prophesies directed toward Israel (and sometimes included the world in general), and even whether or not the nation of Israel repented, God would still be glorified. He would be glorified when His decrees came to pass due to Israel’s failure to repent and He would certainly be glorified if Israel did repent, saving themselves from the prophecies of coming chastisement and even temporary ruin.
Today, we have so-judged prophets constantly foretelling everything and much of what they tell us is always presented with a way out for themselves. I’ve seen this in recent times too often to really keep track of and yet it persists. Whether it’s Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, Harold Camping, Mark Taylor, or any number of other individuals, you name it and they have an opinion on it and they have no problem telling you and me that God “said.” Speaking of which, cue Jonathan Cahn who can now re-enter the limelight with more thought-provoking books…
Way back in May of this year (2016), I wrote an article called End Times Prophets Are At It Again. In it, I discussed an individual named Mark Taylor who in 2011 started to believe that God wanted Donald Trump to be America’s next president. In fact, in an article over at Charisma News, it is very clear that the idea came to Taylor during roughly the same time that Trump had given a speech in which he stated he was thinking about running for president. In other words, Trump was already on the American public’s radar at the time Taylor believes God spoke to him.
During the Las Vegas visit, Trump did an interview, which Taylor watched on television. During that interview, he said God told him he was listening to the president. Although Trump eventually did not run for office in 2012, the retired firefighter believes the businessman’s 2016 run is God-ordained…
This is not the way God did things in the Bible. As noted, God normally gave plenty of warning before His decrees would come to pass. For goodness sakes, God Himself “prophesied” of the coming Messiah in Genesis 3 thousands of years before Jesus was actually and physically born.
Often times, Israel saw no signs of anything coming until it was actually upon them, even though they were warned years ahead of time. We also need to remember that the many prophecies found within the Old Testament were generally directed at Israel and often because of their rebellious nature. This is part of the reason the Tribulation is on its way to this planet. Among other things, God is going to go mano-a-mano with Israel, with an outstretched arm, He will deal with them His way based on their actions and attitude toward Him and from the last generation living just prior to Jesus’ physical return, He will take a final remnant of believers from Israel. This will happen during the Tribulation. It will be these Israelites who come to know and receive Jesus as Savior who will go into the Millennial Kingdom upon Jesus’ return.
So should we be impressed with today’s “prophets” who tell us that God speaks to and through them? No, but that won’t keep people from being duly impressed because there are many today who want to “hear” God afresh instead of learning what He says in His Word. I think if given a choice, too many (including Christians), would sit at the feet of Nostradamus rather than read and study the Bible. That’s not only unfortunate, but seriously tragic.
What can we expect from a Trump presidency? At this point, I have no idea really. He’s made promises, walked back a few, and barreled on ahead anyway. All politicians do this but Trump is not known as a professional politician, but a businessman. Will he be good for this country? He might be and he might also accomplish nothing. He’s made promises with respect to getting rid of or drastically changing Obamacare. Will he succeed? Will Trump “make America great” again? No idea, but time will tell.
Here are just a few things I’m personally hoping for with respect to a Trump Administration:
- more conservative-minded individuals appointed to the Department of Justice and other government agencies that have been taken over by leftists
- more conservative-minded judges/justices appointed who will rule according to the U.S. Constitution instead of political correctness (Reagan seriously fell down on this one, though he was “conservative,” by appointing at least one very liberal Supreme Court Justice)
- helping millions and millions of Americans get back to work to earn a paycheck to support their families
- eradicating or overhauling Obamacare before it crashes and segues into a single-payer, government-controlled healthcare system (socialism)
- support for the 1st and 2nd Amendments
- support for Israel
Those are the main things, but there are others. However, I’m really not pinning my hopes on Donald Trump or anything I may want from him. I remain confident that what will be will be, and that is determined solely by God Himself, not the puny human beings who exist throughout God’s Creation.
One final note for now. Hillary Clinton is most-assuredly over the hill. It is seriously doubtful that she will mount another campaign for president and we may see her fade from politics as well. If all the rumors are true regarding how the Clinton Foundation actually works, her lack of direct connection with Washington may prove her undoing. More than that, is it now going to be time to actually prosecute her and allow a court of law to determine her guilt or innocence rather than the biased news media and public opinion with respect to potentially damaging and even illegal situations she found herself in? Where there’s smoke, there is almost always fire. Maybe now that she has officially lost her attempt to become the first woman president (you know, “it’s time” – whoops, guess not), the protective hedge that’s been built around her will fall away and she will be charged for potential crimes she may have actually committed.
Politics and politicians can be one huge area of distraction for everyone, including Christians. If you – as a Christian – are pinning your hopes on Donald Trump, my advice is to reconsider it and don’t get sidetracked by or into politics. It’s not our job. Christians have a much higher calling than that. If you’re tired of hearing me say that, then I suggest you also stop reading the Bible because that is one of the main themes of the entire New Testament.
Entry filed under: Agenda 21, Atheism and religion, christianity, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Cultural Marxism, Demonic, devil worship, emergent church, Emotional virtue, eternity, Global Elite, Life in America, Political Correctness, Politically Correct, Politics, Religious - Christian - End Times, Religious - Christian - Prophecy, Religious - Christian - Theology, salvation, second coming, Shadow Government. Tags: clinton foundation, donald trump, donald trump wins, hillary clinton, hillary clinton loses, make america great again, mark taylor, modern day prophets, obamacare, old testament prophets, president trump, trump administration.
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1.
Jake | November 25, 2016 at 7:35 PM
I believe the kind of “religious” thinking presented throughout this website is the single reason why Christians are so lost and why America is so lost. You remind me of those who killed Christ with their narrow religious minds. God does not simply speak through the Pope or Billy Graham. He alone chooses his messengers. Mark Taylor knew Donald Trump was going to be president in April of 2011 and you mocked him. Use whatever discernment you have and decide what side you want to be on. God is tired of Christians who preach to one another, but never enter the fight and so our country was almost lost because “Christian Pastors” were afraid to take their religion to the streets and fight the evil that you allowed to take over this country. Get out of you safe little churches and be part of God’s army that gets involved. What good is your Christianity if you never use it to battle the enemy? Even though Trump is president, God is not yet done and neither is the enemy. Christians must pray without stopping and then go out and fight for our country, since the evil ones are still here and are not giving up. Get involved and stop worrying about your 501c3 status.
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2.
modres | November 26, 2016 at 5:16 AM
I don’t believe your thinking is supported by the the Bible at all. In fact, your obvious lack of true biblical discernment alone pokes holes in your so-called logic.
I don’t believe God speaks through the Pope or Billy Graham…or Mark Taylor. In response to your accusation, I did not “mock” Mark Taylor. I specifically disagreed with his assertion that what he thought he heard was from God or that he heard any sort of direct revelation from God. I simply do not believe it and I provided numerous reasons why I thought (and think), this was the case.
Clearly, though you imply otherwise, you’ve obviously not read much on this website at all. Were you truly familiar with the content of this site you would know we weren’t the least bit concerned with our non-profit status.
I’ll fight for truth and His Lordship over all things. America is but one country that has gone off the rails and it started many decades ago.
We have repeatedly asked people to vote and to vote wisely. We did that ourselves.
By the way, Jesus was Himself very narrow in His thinking. In fact, he was legalistic in His approach to life regarding the Mosaic Law (in a good, righteous way). You probably wouldn’t have liked Him and would likely have sided with the Pharisees because they were FOR Israel, but not God, the way you seem to be FOR America but not God.
If you died today, where would that leave you with respect to your eternal soul? Would all your concern for America make a bit of difference in that regard?
I cannot think of even ONE instance where Jesus wanted to stand against Rome because of how evil that power was toward average people. Jesus was concerned with preaching SALVATION to all people because His main concern was for people’s SOULS. That doesn’t appear to even be on your radar.
We are called to fulfill the Great Commission of Matthew 28 which deals with eternal salvation, not the salvaging of a country. I’m sorry you are not aware of this, which causes me to wonder if you have confused being a patriot with being a Christian.
I didn’t need Mark Taylor to tell me who was the lesser of evils or, if you prefer, the better candidate. I’m sorry that people like you – who are clearly unable to think for yourself – DO.
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3.
GEORGE KOSINSKI | November 22, 2016 at 6:35 PM
hmm…. “righteousness exalts a nation”, Proverbs 14:34 – I believe it takes godly (regenerated) and humble people to lead in that direction.
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4.
Beth Santana | November 20, 2016 at 6:54 AM
I appreciate reading the articles, and various comments. I read the Mark Taylor prophesy before the election, as well as a few other articles and input by Rick Joyner etc. I have been exposed to many types of churches, having visited many over the last 25 years, and I must say I am thankful for that experience, and have made friends from various places. When I visited, I was still attending a local church body which I was involved in, and connected to.
When I was 17, I was invited by friends to visit a small local church, who preached salvation through belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I never heard that in my Lutheran church growing up, and I was ready to hear, and receive the truth. I am now 62, and perhaps over the last 40 some years, changed churches three times ( my husband and I watched a veering off course), and visit less frequently other churches, although I still enjoy visiting.
I’ve heard people who present themselves as prophets speak, and some spoke words that were given to me. Out of the many years (I’ve visited charismatic churches, Pentecostal, and others), there were only a few words spoken to me, that I can say were true prophetic words. One of them was about God’s interaction within myself and my son that came true, that I held over the test of time to watch and see. I didn’t understand the words when they were given, but 8 yrs. later, and then over the following many years, I began to understand, as the words unfolded. I received much healing and restoration over time, of some things that were tucked away deep inside of me. I’ve also seen a miracle, and that is the full restoration of my son, who had a traumatic brain injury 9 yrs. ago. My friend was given a word that he would live and not die, and be fully restored. She and her son and daughter in law went to the NSICU, and annointed my son with oil, and prayed for him. The next day he came out of a coma, recognized his family, and from the doctors mouth, said this is more than we could think or imagine could be the outcome. Those words were part of the scripture from Ephesians that I read to my son everyday while he was in a coma for 3 1/2 weeks. I was encouraged by the Holy Spirit to read those words to him everyday. Now it took a few years, and then some, over time as his body and mind were being restored…..it was a continual process, that 9 years later, he is in such a transformative spiritual journey, growing in faith, love, and wisdom. A neuro doctor who recently reevaluated him, based on his view of recent CT scans and MRI, restated the fact that his recovery is a miracle. Although I had been given words, I hoped not in those words, but in God Himself.
I share this to say, that I believe that God does speak to us, and can if He chooses to through other people. I will say that there is so much presented as “prophetic voices” out there, that I do not readily receive or accept most of it. I also stopped reading or listening to much of the very public celebrity pastors and prophets, and organizations, and stick close to home in a very balanced, sound scriptural, healthy church body, with people I am invested in, know, and love.
I also feel the presence of the Holy Spirit right with me at times, and experience a quiet real time of communion with God and a sense of His love and deep peace. I’ve learned over the years to not grasp for signs, miracles, words, experience, but for Him and His word. I believe He has blessed me with discernment over the many years, and there was a reason for all my interaction with various churches. I believe my focus must remain on allowing His continual transformation in my life, and the sharing of His light and love to others.
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5.
modres | November 20, 2016 at 11:14 AM
We’ve never stopped believing that God somehow decided to stop performing miracles or that He doesn’t use a number of things to guide us in this life. However, I personally draw the line when people step up to tell us that God said Donald Trump is going to be the next president. Certainly, Trump is president only due to the Lord allowing that to occur because of His sovereignty. This does not translate to a sweeping change in America and unfortunately, I think many within the Dominionist camp believe that is what will happen. Apart from this why would there be a need for any of us to know this AHEAD of time?
Personally, I tend to think that Taylor was watching/listening to Trump speak and he may have thought “how presidential Trump looked” at that moment, then assumed God was giving him a “word” of knowledge. It has happened a great many times during the time I was in the Charismatic movement and too often been misinterpreted as God speaking. The true test would have been had Taylor come out with that several years before ANYONE (including Trump) had entered the race or even thought about entering it.
There are many examples in these times of God literally performing the miracles you speak of but there are just as many times when miracles were not performed and people were just as sincere in pursuing God and His will. I can recall one time in particular (that I’ve shared in articles here), when my sister had a heart attack and became comatose. A whole bunch of us spent many days praying, praying, and praying. We claimed His promises, His Word, and believed with all our hearts that He would heal her. One day, I tried to pray but there was no sense of belief at all. I tried again. Nothing. Finally, I realized – not through words or a voice, but through a simple inner impression – that God would NOT heal my sister here. In fact, it was His every intention to take her home, which He did the very next day. Ultimately of course, God DID heal my sister when He took her home to be with Him. She is infinitely better off as will all Christians be when they cross over from here to there. I look back on that and realize that the MAIN reason I prayed so hard for my sister’s healing was due to my own selfishness. I wasn’t asking for something that was actually better for HER and/or more glorifying to God. I was concerned with me, my sister’s husband and their son. God simply had a better plan.
I believe God will sometimes speak through others IF we are being disobedient and unable/unwilling to listen to Him. I don’t think this is the way He prefers to do something, though. I also believe God definitely uses others to open doors for us as He sees fit. This seems to be what He has done since the beginning and continues to do today.
As far as I’m concerned, while I FULLY believe God performs what we call miracles today and He most certainly guides us through a variety of means, the days of the actual sign gifts are essentially over. They are not needed at all today because they were given to verify and authenticate the ministry (and deity) of Jesus, as well as the ministries of the original apostles (as well as those prophets from the Old Testament).
Those individuals did not have the entirety of God’s Word as we do today. This is also why God does not appear in epiphanies or in human form to us anymore as He often routinely did the in the Old Testament, where those folks had absolutely NOTHING to go except nature (Creation). While nature proves God exists (Romans 1, etc.), it cannot declare other mysteries like redemption, the deity of Jesus, etc.
But what do we have today? We have one “prophet” or “apostle” after another telling us one thing or another. There is never any proof of their credentials. They perform no miracles as the OT prophets, Jesus, or apostles did (in God’s power). They just speak, get paid a lot of money for their lectures, and sell a ton of books. They are often wrong as has been the case of Jonathan Cahn, Harold Camping, and a host of others. Yet, even when they ARE wrong, people continue to follow and believe them because, unlike you, they have no discernment. They chase after signs because of the potential wow factor of all of it.
Not ONCE in any of Jonathan Cahn’s recent books (that I could find), did he offer any sensible, clear instruction on how to become a Christian. Not once. Too many of these individuals are the same way.
I agree with your last few sentences above all things. Christians waste too much time worrying about a “word,” a “sign,” or a “miracle,” when our true calling has to do with sharing His love to all those around us. As our pastor stated this morning from the pulpit, all Christians are simply individuals links in the chain of mercy. That mercy is extended to others through the clear love we have for God and others.
Thanks for writing and sharing. Thanks also for your discernment. It is a largely untapped treasure today that should be the norm for all authentic Christians, but unfortunately, it is in very short supply.
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6.
Diane | November 15, 2016 at 8:10 PM
Hi, I was glad to come across your blog on Mark Taylor after I revisited his prophecy on Trump because he had indeed won.
The first time I heard him I decided to discount him after I heard the same red flags he exhibited and when he mentioned Rick Joyner who I believe has plenty of proof he is a wolf. I also discerned Mark was being at least influenced by dominionism. But this all brought up for me once again the question of words from the Lord about things to come.
May I offer my two cents. I too have been on both sides of the fence when it comes to charismatic vs secessionist churches. From my study of the word and my guidance I have remained with one foot firmly planted on each side of the issue after much beseeching of the Lord for guidance. I personally believe there is plenty of evidence that the “perfect” that is to come is Christ himself.i don’t believe the sign gifts are finished but that the Lord has seasons and instances where he manifests Himself through them. I came out of deep Satanic deception of the New Age and it took about 25 years for me to be thoroughly delivered from that demonic oppression, which had resulted from my contact with some well known psychics and persons of power including a minor advisor to president Reagan. I was very grateful during those years that the Lord brought Christians from both camps into my life to minister to me, though my membership was at a solid Baptist “Word” church where I was thoroughly grounded in His truths. However, much of my being set free was through the direct intercession and ministry of my charismatic associations and prayer groups who had such an understanding and immediacy of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, though I often contended with them over their views of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and one sister’s insistence everyone should speak in tongues when obviously scripture does not support that. ( Even though I since spontaneously received tongues while in prayer, and no I am not overly emotional) I am currently again at a small Bible church in my area after having previously been at a well balanced Calvary Chapel where the truth and in depth teaching of scripture is done; because the rock and roll worship at the local charismatic churches where I am at and their shallowness in the Word just dont satisfy. All that to point out that I believe that both sides of the issue have their strengths and have their weaknesses but the Lord somehow ministers through them both for his own purposes. However, I feel the charismatic christians are just so susceptible to the wolves because they, by and large, just don’t test anything, to the point now that many are falling prey to Kundalini spirits and being led far astray by false doctrines. I therefore prefer to be in a solid Word church in these days, though I miss the,at times, more powerful manifest presence of the Holy Spirit during worship and in intercessory prayer groups when He just takes over the saints and the prayers just flow from one to another effortlessly in a very palpable way. (and no, I don’t mean by that, tongues. I mean praying in the Spirit.) There is such a lack of the pursuit of the gift to discern the spirits.
Anyway, I had something to say about my thoughts on what I think the Lord shows us in the word about the gift of prophecy, but I have gone on too long. So maybe I will post again later if the Lord leads. Thanks and Blessings, Diane
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7.
modres | November 16, 2016 at 8:02 AM
Hi Diane,
I appreciate your comments.
Let me just say that as a person who was deeply involved in the Charismatic Movement, I came out of it a number of years ago and see it as something where error tends to prosper. The emphasis on sign gifts is actually opposed to Paul’s teaching in 1 Corinthians 12 – 14. You said it yourself that among the emphasis is the belief that unless a person speaks in tongues, they are not baptized with the Holy Spirit. I repudiate that as being heretical. All Christians are baptized into Christ’s Body the moment they receive salvation. There is no “second” baptism though I certainly understand how some folks arrive to the conclusion that a second baptism does exist. I simply believe they are in serious error.
Regarding Mark Taylor, I also believe he is in the Dominionist camp. He and those who think as he thinks firmly believe that Trump will “take America back.” I believe that God certainly allowed Trump to become president, but that fact does not guarantee that any real change will come to America. This world is still steadily moving toward the coming Tribulation period in which Antichrist will gain the upper hand and become leader of the Revised Roman Empire, or the final version of the fourth kingdom as laid out in the book of Daniel and Revelation.
Regarding sign gifts (tongues, etc.), I find it fascinating that Paul outlines priorities in 1 Corinthians 12 – 14 and even though he details how the gifts are to be used in public worship, I can recall that not once was this formula ever followed in any of the services I attended and participated in. Not once. In fact, though Paul urges his readers to pursue the gift of prophecy (which could easily be taken to mean a clear teaching of God’s already revealed truth in Scripture), he also emphasizes the fact that love is over all and above all and is the one fruit that all Christians are to be in hot pursuit for. Yet, in spite of this, we have Christians who argue, argue, argue over everything, including the gifts of the Spirit. Paul says that a person could speak in tongues all day or prophesy day and night, yet if they have not love, those other things are worthless.
Regarding Mark Taylor, I have to seriously wonder why God would think we would need to know ahead of time who is going to be president of the United States? What does it matter? Why was there this alleged need to alert us to that fact? Would God not have been able to do what He had purposed to do if He didn’t announce it ahead of time? It’s not as if the USA is Israel and the prophecies recorded in Scripture are primarily about Israel and nations connected to Israel, when not discussing the Messiah.
I agree with you wholeheartedly that Christians need discernment and it appears to be heavily lacking. An individual who commented asked me “if Mark Taylor’s prophecy has caused some unbelieving people to believe in God?” yet, as I pointed out to him, Paul make it clear in 1 Corinthians 14:22 that prophesy is NOT for unbelievers. Where is his discernment in grasping that? Instead, he obviously believes that God uses prophesy to draw unbelievers to Him, though Paul indicates just the opposite is true.
But this is the biggest problem within Charismatic circles and people who rely on understanding Scripture by how they feel. Our emotions are fallen and corrupt and just because we become Christian does not mean our emotions are no longer susceptible to error. Prior to her fall, Eve herself was very susceptible to how she felt about something and it caused her to fall away from God and this was BEFORE the sin nature developed within her. She actually had perfect free will, yet STILL fell because of how she felt about something. How much more easily can we fall because of it? Emotions can be very deceptive and if we allow ourselves to be guided by them or to determine truth through how emotions make us feel, we are on a very sandy foundation.
I avoid any form of Charismatic mania because it has given birth to so much error. This is not to say that God cannot guide us through “urges” within as long as those urges are supported by Scripture, but I personally draw the line prophetic utterances that allegedly come from God. I believe the Canon of Scripture is closed and yet, within Charismatic circles, God is always talking, always revealing, always speaking out to His children. I’ve lost count on how many times I heard some Charismatic preacher explain the meaning of some “word of knowledge” in a service that was diametrically opposed to what God’s Word taught, yet it was accepted because it was considered “prophetic utterance.”
So many Christians today seem to be so enamored with extra-biblical revelation when in point of fact, they haven’t bothered to study the Bible enough to know what IT says. They are intent on living as if Jesus was walking right beside them talking the whole time, as He did when He walked this earth. They desperately seek that “ongoing, fluid conversation” they think should be the norm for Christians. That is not what our relationship consists of as far as I can tell from Scripture. God opens doors, closes them, gives us insight, discernment, or urges us to do something, but He only does this when we are faithfully studying His Word because by and large, THAT is what the Holy Spirit uses to guide God’s children today.
Our situation today is unlike the situation of the first century Christians when things were getting up and running, when God deliberately chose to use visions, prophetic utterances and the like with (mainly) the apostles because the entirety of the New Testament had not yet been written. It has now been written and the Canon is closed. God HAS revealed Himself as much as He thinks we need to know about Him and His plans and there is a TON there that Christians should be studying. It’s always good to hear from someone like yourself how much you study His Word. A bit AMEN to that!
These are my opinions and certainly, people have a right to agree or disagree with me. I realized a very long time ago that I have absolutely no power to convince anyone of anything. I simply put it out there and each reader will have to make up their own minds.
Thanks again for sharing.
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8.
Kelly | November 15, 2016 at 12:53 PM
I am wondering what you think if Mark Taylor’s prophecy has caused some unbelieving people to believe in God? Don’t give me that double talk about God using bad situations for his good. Also know that I am an ex-preacher of a very conservative Christian church.
I have never bought into the notion that God stopped prophecy because some self-subscribed preacher said that God did when there is no proof in the Bible that God ever planned to stop it. I do believe it is dangerous and one must be very very sure they actually received something from God. The penalty of falsely saying something is too great. However, there is no proof God stopped any of the gifts. Less you would have to say that God stopped knowledge as well. If as I Cor 13 says prophecies have fallen away then so has knowledge/wisdom of God. You have to answer the question has ‘completeness come’? Or do we still ‘see only a reflection as in a mirror’? If those conditions exists then the gifts of the Holy Spirit still exist. Not to give ‘new revelations’ of God, but to provide hope, faith, and love to God’s people which will never fade.
For now I would hope that your belief in prophecies and the gifts of the Holy Spirit might change to match the Biblical account of those gifts, not in a perverted manor, but in one that is open to the idea that God still exists and works in his people. I too do not believe that tongues are an angelic language. I believe it is talking about actual human languages. However, having asked God about prophecy and having God answer me firsthand about it, I am very confident that prophecy exist today. I am also convinced that false-prophets exist as well.
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9.
modres | November 15, 2016 at 2:46 PM
Forgive my confusion but it seems that you came here to this blog, read something you fully disagreed with and are trying to convince me that your opinion is true while mine is false. In any article we publish here, we’re not necessarily trying to convince anyone of our position. We are simply putting our opinion out there for people to think about, reject, or accept. It’s really that simple. I do appreciate your opinion and as I’ve stated in other articles, it is one I’ve held in the past, but no longer. I simply do not believe it squares with Scripture.
Your comment “don’t give me double talk…” is simply rude, as though it is our intent to talk in circles rather than express ourselves in a clear way we believe coincides with Scripture. By the way, I’m not sure what being “an ex-preacher of a very conservative Christian church” has to do with anything. You lost me there. I can brandish my credentials as well, but for what purpose?
However, when you ask me, “if Mark Taylor’s prophecy has caused some unbelieving people to believe in God,” I have to ask what you mean by that? Did Mark Taylor explain the actual gospel in his “prophetic” comments? Did he tell people what it means to actually BE saved? No, it seems that he simply said he “felt” or “believed” that God was telling him he was listening to the next president of the United States. How does that translate to people believing on the Name of the Lord Jesus for salvation? It doesn’t. Your generalized statement “believe in God” means absolutely nothing in the biblical sense.
What Mr. Taylor expressed does not move people toward God in Christ at all. Confer Peter’s sermon in Acts 2 where he, without equivocation, explained the gospel message there. He wasn’t nebulous or tentative about it, but very explicit. Mark Taylor was relaying how he felt about something and simply talked about God in general terms, much like people in the New Age do.
In 1 Corinthians 13:10, Paul speaks of things ceasing when that which is perfect is come. I realize fully that there are a variety of opinions with respect to this verse and that section of Scripture, but I believe that Paul is referring to the time when God would complete the Bible and the canon would be closed. Again, this is my opinion and I understand that others do not see it that way.
When we speak of “prophecy” people normally think of telling the future. When the Bible speaks of prophecy, it frequently means speaking out the truth of REVEALED Scripture. I believe that God guides His children and guides this world to His desired ends, in spite of what we might call our “free will.” He gets things done. He guides us through a variety of means and that is clear from Scripture.
However, I also believe that the “sign” gifts died out with the last apostle. You would argue that I believe this based on “some self-subscribed preacher,” but in reality, I believe it comes from God’s Word itself. In fact, I see plenty of evidence there that the sign gifts stopped but you do not. Which of us is correct and how to you prove that? I am responsible for what I believe just as you are responsible for what you believe. You think arguing with me is going to prove anything other that you can be argumentative?
In 1 Corinthians 13, that which is “perfect” literally means complete or whole and in all likelihood, refers to the perfection and completion of God’s truth revealed to humanity. Do we know all there is to know of God? Of course not, but it would seem that He has revealed everything He wants us to know about Him in His Word. Do we NEED to know who the next president is before it happens? I cannot imagine why that is even important. We didn’t even learn the actual names of each of the rulers of the four empires first revealed through Daniel to Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2 (and 7).
Mark Taylor could have easily just been listening to Trump and thought how presidential he sounded and then extrapolated that to mean that God had “spoken” to him. I mean, my goodness, look how much error has been taught to us by the likes of Jonathan Cahn, Harold Camping, Steve Fletcher and too many others to list. It’s becoming a pandemic.
With respect to the word “knowledge” as used by Paul, it could easily be understood to him referring to the fact that during his lifetime, all the knowledge of God (that God wanted us to know) had not yet been revealed. After all, Paul himself who wrote many of the New Testament epistles had not written them all yet. The others had not been written either. They were still to come and that took many decades after Paul had been martyred before these books were completed and it was several generations later when the canon was determined to be closed.
Until the last book was fitted into place in the New Testament, God was still revealing His prophetic Word. I realize that not all folks accept this view as viable, but then Christians tend to disagree about everything under the sun.
You assume that your view is the correct view (as based on the first sentence in your last paragraph), which I find a bit pretentious. You can no more prove your position than I can prove mine. I believe that the major problems with “words of knowledge” (another term for prophecy or prophetic utterances), is that they are way too dependent on how people feel about them. You say that God answered you firsthand when you asked Him about prophecy. I don’t even know what that means? You heard a voice? I remember doing the same type of thing when I was involved in the Charismatic Movement and so did many of my friends. In fact, it was often the case that we would ignore the Bible and look for a “word” or some inner voice that would guide us to some answer to something we wanted to know. It means nothing unless it can be backed up by Scripture and only then when Scripture is allowed to interpret Scripture, not by taking one verse here, another verse there, and another verse there from its context.
In 1 Corinthians 14, Paul discusses how to use the gifts in the church, as one who was involved in the Charismatic Movement years ago for a number of years and who has visited Charismatic conferences and Pentecostal gatherings, I can say without equivocation that the rules outlined by Paul in that chapter are NEVER observed.
By the way, I also find it fascinating what Paul says about prophesying: “So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers,” (1 Corinthians 14:22; emphasis added).
Yet, your opening comment was asking me whether I thought Mark Taylor’s “prophecy has caused some unbelieving people to believe in God?” Paul says that’s not the purpose of prophecy. Tongues is a SIGN for unbelievers (and I believe he is referring back to Acts 2 here), NOT for believers. You seem to have it switched around, so whom should I believe, you or Paul?
If we are brothers in the Lord, we need to agree to disagree. I do not believe I have “perverted” the truth of God’s Word anymore than you believe you have done that. We simply disagree over what the Bible teaches and I think we should leave it at that.
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skerren123 | November 11, 2016 at 10:55 AM
Excuse me??? Who do you peole think you are? First, you need to learn your word, and once you do … you need to shut your mouth! Take a look:
Joel 2.28 In the LAST DAYS my sons and daughters will prophesy.
Romans 12.6 If anyone has a prophecy, let him prophesy.
John 10.27 My sheep will HEAR MY VOICE.
1 Corinthians 12 An outline of the gifts of the Holy Spirit — the greatest of which is prophecy.
That’s in-your-face proof that the New Testament Church has PERMISSION to prophesy.
In view of the scriptures above, you’re actually ARGUING WITH GOD RIGHT NOW, and I suggest you stop doing that immediately.
Mark Taylor never said he’s “a prophet.” He said he has “a word” from the Lord. And even if he did, he proved that he is.
Considering the scriptures above, you are currently in violation of New Testament scripture and procedure.
If you are scorched with jealousy because the Lord has not given you this gift, I suggest you all become filled with the Holy Spirit, according to Acts Chapters 1, 2 and 19, and 1 Corinthians 13.1.
Once you receive the Holy Spirit your eyes will open. Until then, you are not qualified to speak on this matter.
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modres | November 11, 2016 at 11:40 AM
Wow, where do I start answering your rant?
Joel 2:28 was speaking TO the people of Israel and specifically refers to the last days when the Tribulation period is IN PROGRESS. In fact, the verse you reference in Joel is simply that START of a pericope that deals with not only the Tribulation (or the time of Jacob’s Trouble), but BEYOND it to the Millennial Kingdom in which our Lord Jesus Himself will reign for 1,000 years over the entire earth and it will be the only time in this world’s history where Jews will actually live in ALL of the Land originally promised to them.
The entire section of Joel you reference (Joel 2:28 – 3:21) is VERY in-depth and I would encourage you to read it in its entirety and then do some in-depth studies on that section. You might be actually amazed at what you will discover. But sure, go ahead and rip one verse out of its context and use it to build a shaky theology on.
As for Romans 12:6, you have chosen ONE verse out of another section (Romans 12:1-8), which speaks to a diversity of gifts. It is very likely that Paul MEANT a sense of communicating revealed truth to exhort, encourage, and comfort (cf. 1 Cor. 14:3, 31) and, perhaps, praising God (1 Chron. 25:1). He was NOT necessarily speaking of predicting or proclaiming new revelation. Beyond this, the word “prophecy” in Scripture (especially the New Testament) has far more to do with TEACHING God’s written and therefore revealed WORD than these so-called “words of knowledge” that are often passed off today as God speaking through individuals.
John 10:27 is where Jesus is speaking of those who hear His voice by RESPONDING to their need for SALVATION. There were many who rejected His voice when He walked this earth and there are many who reject Him today. Those are not His sheep. Only those who hear and respond to the call to come to Him for salvation are actually His sheep. For goodness sakes, the ENTIRE chapter of John 10 is dealing with those who either received or rejected JESUS as Lord and Savior and in doing so, either gained or failed to gain salvation. That’s what Jesus is referring to, but you are so bent on grabbing one verse here or another one there, you cannot see the forest for the trees.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul actually pointed to the GREATEST or the “way which is beyond comparison” (NET) and that is LOVE. As I look over your comments, I see absolutely NO love at all. In fact, you are downright rude, yet you excuse yourself because you believe you have to defend God and what you believe to be His truth as seen in and through the Mark Taylors of the world. You believe that you are exhibiting righteous indignation when in point of fact, you are simply being beyond arrogant.
With respect to the word “prophesy” in the New Testament, it is more often used in the sense of “preaching” or sharing the truth of Scripture. It is the same with the word “apostle.” In its most basic form, the word “apostle” simply means “sent one,” therefore there are people alive today who believe they are actually apostles in the same sense that the original 12 (and then Paul) were apostles. This is 100% incorrect and it is proven by the revelation in the book of Revelation that speaks of the 12 foundations of the New City of Jerusalem which were named after the 12 apostles. You can read about it in Revelation 21.
You have also accused me of being “scorched with jealousy,” which simply proves that you are a judge with evil thoughts and James speaks to this problem in James 2. Jesus also speaks to the fact that we should not judge another person’s MOTIVES, but their actions and/or words only. You have gone beyond that.
There is such a thing as DISCERNMENT and knowing how to “rightly divide” God’s Word. It appears from your comments that you are involved in the Charismatic Movement or some form of Pentecostalism that erroneously believes that a person becomes a Christian and then at another point in time (if then), they become baptized and/or filled with the Spirit. I believe you are in clear error, but I know from experience that there is nothing I can say that will convince you at all.
I spent a number of years inside the Charismatic Movement years ago and there was a time when I believed as you believe now. I even “spoke with tongues” on a regular basis. I have since rejected it because what I found is that by and large, the entire movement is built on the extremely shaky foundation of emotionalism. It is a form of political correctness that has infiltrated that aspect of Christendom and unfortunately, so much biblical error and erroneous theology has come out of it, it is difficult to keep up with and so many grab onto it because they want desperately to know God and they unfortunately think that the emotionalism that often goes along with tongues, “words of knowledge” and all the rest is what catapults them into His Presence.
Guess what? I’m already IN His Presence (Ephesians 2). I’ve already been baptized by the Holy Spirit (too many Scriptures to reference here; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 12, etc.). Again, I am positive I cannot convince you of anything other than what you already believe.
If you would like to continue to post comments here, you are welcome to do that. So that you are aware, EVERY comment is moderated and most have been published. Only a few of been deleted in the past because they had absolutely not one iota of decency about them. So that you are aware, any future comments from you (or anyone) must adhere to a decorum that engenders DISCUSSION, not acrimony.
This blog is where we share our opinion. You are certainly most welcome to agree or disagree. You are NOT, however, welcome to castigate anyone whose opinion is presented herein. If you cannot do this, then I suggest strongly that you go elsewhere.
It would also be good for you to take your own advice. Learn the Word. Stop cherry-picking one verse here, another one there, and another one over there to make it appear as though God’s Word supports your questionable opinions. Let the Bible interpret itself.
I disagree that Mark Taylor received a “word from the Lord.” I disagree that he is a prophet by any stretch. This does NOT mean that it was not in God’s design that Donald Trump was elected because God is in control of that as He is in everything else.
I’m simply getting tired of all the people who run after the Jonathan Cahns, the Harold Campings, the Steve Fletchers, the Mark Taylors, and all the other individuals who claim in some form to speak the very words that God allegedly gave them. If you read Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, you’ll find that Jesus warned about these type of people in that section of Scripture (Olivet Discourse). There is a growing sense of individuals who are nothing less than false prophets and false teachers. The wheat grows with the tares.
I am not arguing with God right now and even if I was, do you not think He is capable of letting me know or don’t you think He loves me enough? You clearly are very angry with me right now and that only speaks to the fact that you are highly offended that I would deign to speak out against someone that you have clearly put your faith in.
Either present yourself with the proper decorum, fitting of a Christian, or do not submit comments to be considered for publication. Thank you.
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12.
Let’s Talk More About Mark Taylor Okay? | Study - Grow - Know | November 9, 2016 at 12:15 PM
[…] NOTE: For updated commentary on this article, please follow this link: What Can We Expect or Hope For Now that Election is Over? […]
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13.
rutnerh | November 9, 2016 at 10:28 AM
True, Trump was God’ s choice over Jezebel Clinton, even though a slim plurality of legal voters, boosted by millions of voting illegal aliens, felt otherwise. Incredibly these illegals were urged by President Obama, an Harvard educated Professor of Constitutional Law, to violate our voting laws, thus might have made Clinton the next President under laws in other countries, perish the thought!
PTL for His divine truly miraculous intervention!
And as you said let us stop our preoccupation with the cares of this world and focus on our divinely appointed task to rescue some of the perishing multitudes from eternal damnation in a literal hell per absolutely true words of Jesus.
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modres | November 9, 2016 at 10:33 AM
Thanks very much for your comments.
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